[GONIF]

Sadly , there is no free lunch. Your right foot will not get a thrill like a HP v8 ,and you wont be able to enjoy hot 0 to 60 or 14 mile times . I had a new 2014 CRT bolt on 1LE ,and cant see how the Toyota or Subaru could come even close . They may be lighter, and cheaper ,but I can't see going from a v8 1LE to the Toyota or Subaru and being satisfied with anything except the price . Bottom line is It's going to be hard to accept a Toyota or Subaru after a Camaro SS 1LE .
Lke Jager said "I CAN GET NO SATISFACTION " TO ME IT'S HARD TO BEAT A CORVETTE OF CAMARO FOR BANG FOR THE BUCK PERFORMANCE. NOT CHEAP BUT WORTH THE MONEY.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

The BRZ is going to be at least 10K cheaper, which is significant. The BRZ would lose on a road course and a dragstrip, obviously. But that's not the point of the car. It's a lightweight RWD sports car build for carving mountain/back roads for a very affordable price.


It will be significantly cheaper to run and own versus an SS 1LE as well. Cheaper tires, cheaper brakes, cheaper gas, probably cheaper insurance too. You can wring it out on the street without getting into trouble (i.e. speeding) very quickly, like you will with an SS.



If I already had a high powered Camaro, I would total consider a BRZ for a change of pace and driving dynamics.

I tried a BRZ at one point.

My opinion on if you want a small and nimble car? Grab an ND2. Just felt that much more fun to me.

BRZ felt piss slow. ND2, not so much. Mazda did a great job with the short gear ratios. Plus ND2 is a convertible so the open air feeling is a plus.

[SHessler]

Yep, an ND2 is a blast. I would pick one over the BRZ any day. If you need a real roof though the BRZ is at least sporty and you can really throw it around.

[Malbjey]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

I tried a BRZ at one point.

My opinion on if you want a small and nimble car? Grab an ND2. Just felt that much more fun to me.

BRZ felt piss slow. ND2, not so much. Mazda did a great job with the short gear ratios. Plus ND2 is a convertible so the open air feeling is a plus.

From what I'm reading on the new BRZ, it seems like a definitive winner versus the ND2.



Plus it is much more practical for those who do track days and need to carry around a separate set of wheels.



You can't go wrong with either, but the new BRZ would definitely be my first choice. I don't really care for convertibles either, heh.

[sactownbwoy]

Originally Posted by 10mm

Savage Geese recently did a great review.
Cool car but it lacks the following:

No Brembo's
Lame ass piped in engine sound
Buzzy engine when reved to redline
The tq is much more linear and sooner.
I do like 86 better.

It's weird that Subaru removed the Brembo package for the 22 MY. Because it was an option for the earlier years starting in '17 or '18 I believe. I had a '14 and that wasn't an option back then.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

From what I'm reading on the new BRZ, it seems like a definitive winner versus the ND2.



Plus it is much more practical for those who do track days and need to carry around a separate set of wheels.



You can't go wrong with either, but the new BRZ would definitely be my first choice. I don't really care for convertibles either, heh.

I don't know if the current BRZ will feel faster. That's the thing about ND2 and really, any Miata. They are fun because they felt faster than they actually are.

What I personally feel like is that they could fit a smaller turbo engine into BRZ(I think Subaru has something like a 1.8T in some other markets) and let the customer pick what they want between a 1.8T or a 2.4. Note that I am saying that the turbo should exist alongside the NA engine, not replace it. I totally get the appeal of high-revving NA engines and their instantaneous response, but the low-end torque and easy power from tunes are also undeniable for the turbo engines. It could help address the complaints of BRZ feeling slow, IMO, and could also address BRZ's infamous torque dip. Add in the displacement road tax often encountered outside of North America, where the threshold of 2000cc could make a big difference in your annual tax, I am actually puzzled why BRZ doesn't come with a turbo engine option if the goal is to be affordable.

Kinda like why we have 2.0T and 3.6 Camaro. I would take the 3.6 between the two because I don't do mods and I prefer the instantaneous response NA engines provide, but 2.0T is there for a reason.

Besides... If we are comparing the cars to an SS 1LE, then ND2 is that much more different than an SS 1LE. As for track days, just put your tires on and go? Unless you are using slicks and you think it might rain, then I don't see why you can just put the tires on before you go to the local track.

[GONIF]

As we all know , under 3000 lbs and 300 rwhp is what works. A 2.0 or 2.5 liter 330 hp turbo in the BRZ would be what it needs. Why they didn't take a clue from Honda and what they did to the Civic type R engine is beyond me. That would be a real deal pocket rocket supercar. And if they sold it for $35000.00 it would sell like crazy.

[FlowTie]

They are really fun cars for technicals, a snore everywhere else. If you'll pay to stroke it or turbo it then it will still be slow by modern performance standards, even in corners unless you get real aero. For a car to just beat the crap out of on a back road it's pretty fun. They put a smile on my face because I love RWD short wheelbases and vivid feedback, so I think they are worth the money despite them not being speed demons.

Nobody likes heavier modern cars but it's all about power to weight for the most part. Kinetic energy and static friction factors are still inseparably linked by the mass, that's to say a larger mass resists acceleration (change in direction) to a greater degree than a smaller mass- but if the car is built accordingly that's no more a problem than it ever has been. Granted proportions of components have to be redesigned due to shortcomings in all materials, but it's all about lateral G's and putting power down these days. Not saying I'm a fan of heavier cars, just that there are plenty of cars which weigh more but will eat lighter cars for lunch given the same power to weight.

[TXCSSU]

There are certain cars that the drivers seem to think are faster than they actually are, and the driver tries to drive the car as such. This seems to always be the case with this car. I could be driving my normal 80 mph and pull up to one of these in the left lane tooling around at 65, and when I go to get around them, they try to keep me from passing. It never ends well for them. Having said that, I always thought that even a slight increase in power, this small car could be a handful, but I think most drivers aren't too serious about anything more that a Folgers can tailpipe.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by GONIF

As we all know , under 3000 lbs and 300 rwhp is what works. A 2.0 or 2.5 liter 330 hp turbo in the BRZ would be what it needs. Why they didn't take a clue from Honda and what they did to the Civic type R engine is beyond me. That would be a real deal pocket rocket supercar. And if they sold it for $35000.00 it would sell like crazy.

That almost exists - the Supra 3.0. Well over 300 rwhp (likely 350+ rwhp) and only about 3,300 lbs. but it's missing a manual option. It's obviously more expensive than the price you mention as well.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by TXCSSU

There are certain cars that the drivers seem to think are faster than they actually are, and the driver tries to drive the car as such. This seems to always be the case with this car. I could be driving my normal 80 mph and pull up to one of these in the left lane tooling around at 65, and when I go to get around them, they try to keep me from passing. It never ends well for them. Having said that, I always thought that even a slight increase in power, this small car could be a handful, but I think most drivers aren't too serious about anything more that a Folgers can tailpipe.

Said this before, but at least with the old BRZ, it feels just as slow as it actually is.

Miata, however, always does feel faster to me than it actually is.

[Bosse'sBoss]

What does not makes sense is that both the BRZ & GR86 have very poor highway MPG like any V8 vehicle, also are having issues with head gasket's silicon damaging the engine. You can see that on their forums.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

What does not makes sense is that both the BRZ & GR86 have very poor highway MPG like any V8 vehicle, also are having issues with head gasket's silicon damaging the engine. You can see that on their forums.

The poor gas mileage actually applies to a lot of those high-revving, low-torque NA engines. At highway speeds, their revs are way up even in the last gear versus an LT1 that has enough low-end torque to have a very tall last gear for fuel economy.

Flat engines are... Kinda weird and difficult to design in general because gravity suddenly matters a lot more. Ever wonder why only two major auto manufacturers are sticking with them? One of them just happens to have a lot more budget to work with and really only put them in their halo cars where they actually help. The other one has historically struggled with them.