[BlaqWhole]

This was sent to me earlier. 2021 Mustang refresh.
https://www.mustang6g.com/2021-mustang-refresh-spied/


And MF is saying this might be the 2021 Mach-1.
https://mustangforums.com/articles/s...mpaign=content

So I wonder if the Mach-1 will become Ford's GS where it'll have GT500 looks but not the engine or trans. This might have the PP2 suspension and I would think it'll have the Bullitt engine.

But wouldn't it have been better if they did the Mach1 like they did back in the early 2000s? I mean, if anything give it a detuned and de-powered GT500 engine but on a PP2 suspension and without any of the CF stuff. Give it the A10 instead of the DCT with the M6 trans option. Throw in some moderate options as standard. Price it around low $60K and ditch the worthless Goddamn GT350 finally. It would probably kill the GT500 sales and markups but at least they'll have a decently priced high HP monster that can be modified.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by minn19

And still no answer...........

minn19, seriously dude, knock it off. This ain't M6G. You and others came over here and started bickering and this thread is gonna get shut down because of you guys. We're trying to keep it on focus here and you're disrupting. He doesn't have to answer to you. He says he ran on a track. If he tells you which one, are you gonna go there and try to do it? What reason could you possibly have for wanting to know which track? Are you just busting his balls? Are you insinuating that he is lying? None of this matters. You were just over on the Mustang forums arguing and debating and going back and forth with them. Did they ban you or something? Is that why you're here now? Don't bring that nonsense here. It's over. Stop being nitpicky and petty. You argued with me over a term and now you're picking a fight with someone else over something else. Just let it go dude.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Did the standard SS ever battle the PP1? I do know the SLE took on the PP1 and RP said it wasn't even close.

Also the weight difference between the two cars. The 13/14 GT500 did 192 MPH top speed or something like that. They never made it to 200. In fact I think they're the only ones who didn't make it to 200 MPH yet.

Yea but how much more than 180 and can it do it and remain stable. Or without sending a rod thru the hood. LOL!! Eventually someone will remove the limiter and see for themselves. When they do I just hope they have a fire extinguisher readily available and medic personnel on standby.

Is there a Fisher-Price version of this? LOL!! I mean, wow oldman.

Basically what he is saying is the drop of in the ratios of the DCT from 5th to 6th in the GT500 is massive. It has a theoretical top speed of 18X in 5th at redline. Once it drops to 6th gear, it is going to lose almost 100 hp and could probably get up past 190 but with that ratio, being down it's peak power its going to take forever to get to those speeds. Then I would guess you combine things like aero and weight etc and it could maybe max out in the upper 190s if you had a runway the size of the one in Fast & Furious 6 lol.

Basically sounds to me like the GT500 is geared super aggressive 1-5 for maximum performance on drag strip and road course at the expense of top speed ability. So basically it pretty much runs out of steam in 5th gear. That pretty much the jist of it oldman?

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

This was sent to me earlier. 2021 Mustang refresh.
https://www.mustang6g.com/2021-mustang-refresh-spied/


And MF is saying this might be the 2021 Mach-1.
https://mustangforums.com/articles/s...mpaign=content

So I wonder if the Mach-1 will become Ford's GS where it'll have GT500 looks but not the engine or trans. This might have the PP2 suspension and I would think it'll have the Bullitt engine.

But wouldn't it have been better if they did the Mach1 like they did back in the early 2000s? I mean, if anything give it a detuned and de-powered GT500 engine but on a PP2 suspension and without any of the CF stuff. Give it the A10 instead of the DCT with the M6 trans option. Throw in some moderate options as standard. Price it around low $60K and ditch the worthless Goddamn GT350 finally. It would probably kill the GT500 sales and markups but at least they'll have a decently priced high HP monster that can be modified.

If I had to guess the Mach-1 will be the bullitt but you can get the A10 in it, or PP2 if you want.

There are some rumors on 6g that 20 is the last year for the GT350

[rocket403]

Here is the GT500 vs the Redeye at the Strip



Venom does not kill Demons LOL

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

But wouldn't it have been better if they did the Mach1 like they did back in the early 2000s? I mean, if anything give it a detuned and de-powered GT500 engine but on a PP2 suspension and without any of the CF stuff. Give it the A10 instead of the DCT with the M6 trans option. Throw in some moderate options as standard. Price it around low $60K and ditch the worthless Goddamn GT350 finally. It would probably kill the GT500 sales and markups but at least they'll have a decently priced high HP monster that can be modified.

That would be the most attractive Mustang they have offered up to now in this Gen in my opinion. I am not a GT500 buyer, not a Shelby buyer either due to paying for a badge plus the mark-ups. But that car would be really awesome and I would consider buying one, as long as that 6-speed was a Tremec. I think it would destroy GT350 sales, so the rumor shaffe mentions below would have to be true if this could ever happen. The GT500 buyer doesnt want a supercharged PP2(just a GT after all), they want the most powerful Mustang you can buy and they also want it to have a Shelby GT500 badge on it! Those sales would be safe I think.

Originally Posted by shaffe

There are some rumors on 6g that 20 is the last year for the GT350

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Basically what he is saying is the drop of in the ratios of the DCT from 5th to 6th in the GT500 is massive. It has a theoretical top speed of 18X in 5th at redline. Once it drops to 6th gear, it is going to lose almost 100 hp and could probably get up past 190 but with that ratio, being down it's peak power its going to take forever to get to those speeds. Then I would guess you combine things like aero and weight etc and it could maybe max out in the upper 190s if you had a runway the size of the one in Fast & Furious 6 lol.

Basically sounds to me like the GT500 is geared super aggressive 1-5 for maximum performance on drag strip and road course at the expense of top speed ability. So basically it pretty much runs out of steam in 5th gear. That pretty much the jist of it oldman?

If I had to guess the Mach-1 will be the bullitt but you can get the A10 in it, or PP2 if you want.

There are some rumors on 6g that 20 is the last year for the GT350

I have to agree about the GT350 going away to make room for the Mach-1. I would think it would be in the low 500's hp engine in the Mach-1 or it would not mean much in the sports car world. I predict the GT will get the 480hp engine and the Mach-1 will be 550hp.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

I have to agree about the GT350 going away to make room for the Mach-1. I would think it would be in the low 500's hp engine in the Mach-1 or it would not mean much in the sports car world. I predict the GT will get the 480hp engine and the Mach-1 will be 550hp.

If I was a betting man, that is pretty close.

I would say the Mach 1 will get a CPC version of the 5.2 making 500ish HP

GT will get Bullitt Engine at either the full 480 or at 475

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by rocket403

Here is the GT500 vs the Redeye at the Strip



Venom does not kill Demons LOL

My close friend owns a RedEye (awesome car), and he sent me this vid also. He was first to point out the DR vs the R888s. MPH goes to the Shelby. What I'm most curious about is how strong the DCT clutches are, and how low can they bring the GT500 60' before the clutches start slipping/wrecking.

I would have preferred both cars on a DR for this video, but still props to the RE - just wish you could get one with a manual like the HCs.

[TheRealJA105]

Sorry guys had surgery yesterday so lot's of quotes coming up...

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You're tolerable now so I'll let that slide. I gotta ask tho, why a Calloway SS? They seem awfully expensive for a SS with a blower. Did you get yours in 2016 before the ZL1 was available? Just curious. Because between the two I would think the ZL1 would be a better choice

But I did not say I have no desire for traction. I said I have no desire to run DRs until my mods are done. As of right now it would be an unnecessary expense.

Gotta pay to play. I don't want to spend the money in the fueling upgrades that I will need to push this car over 750 RWHP. I'm pretty much gonna be spending more for fueling upgrades than I will for the damn blower itself. But I think this car is worth it. And I think the end product will justify the price. If I spend GT500 money (including the price of what I paid for my ZL1) and get a 1000 RWHP car as the end result then I think it will have been worthwhile.

Oh I am sure it can be done. You'll see.

To answer your question look here to my introduction thread https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=472603 where you will also see that there has not ever been 1 ounce of Mustang or Ford Fanboi in me. Absolutely a ZL1 or ZLE would be a better car for me, but I only spent $45k on my car and beat most ZL1/ZLE drivers on the track which is very satisfying. I've only ever pointed one ZLE by as a matter of fact and my brakes were fading bad as I was trying to use up the last of my pads.

You tell me i gotta pay to play, but you won't buy DRs. That's an easy half second gain for you right there and the best bang for your buck.

Yes 10 second C8 hero runs, not going to be the norm. It would be awesome if I have to eat crow on this though. The C8 is awesome.

Originally Posted by oldman

So far I enjoy your post, but I don't know if who is being embarrassed. Clearly most NORMAL people even big car enthusiasts don't go around on 22 PSI DR. If you are talking about "real" 00 wear drag tires, because IMO this is what it would take, they handle like a rotten banana. Why would anybody drive with rotten banana on the back of their sports car (that what the ZL1 and Shelby are)? I build cars, my car is used for driving hence the word CAR, not race car, not drag car, not trailer queen, not lawn ornament, but CAR. I have absolutely NO care about what times on a prep track on special tires a "car" can go. I only know and care about what I can do with my car on pump fuel on the tires that are normally on it, under conditions generally found on the road. I would assume that is true for 99.999% of the performance enthusiast. Truth be told performance on the drag strip will always go to the guy with the biggest wallet coupled by the least streetable setup. In reality 1/4 mile performance at a prep drag strip, with drag oriented tires is really a meaningless metric when talking about production cars.
Don't know, low 11s seems pretty fast for sub 500 HP engine. So it is hard for me to believe it is an issue considering we are talking about production streetcars on production rubber. The base C8 would may need a tinge.
But yeah if you are talking about a drag pack with light rims, sticky 00 tires in the back and a prep track, pizza-cutter lightweight wheels in the front.. I can see 10s, I would imagine 18" wheels with a 10% smaller in diameter tire for a little more gear. For bragging rights, don't think it would be all that fun on the street. A local guy has a ZLE with drag pack on it. That is a lot of money, weight and air drag only to run a drag pack on it... but it is his money, he should give me the "heavy" DSSV for my stock dampers....
Hmm Calaway package.... nice.

Sorry I thought you were a drag racer. You don't know why he's being embarrassed, you would have to go back and read alot.
The fact is if you want to run the best time for your car at a strip, you will show up on DRs. I'm a road course guy and i still bought a set of DRs because i was tired of 2 second 60 foots. Honestly DRs don't drive nearly as bad as you say and if you are a stoplight warrior they would still be your best choice. They even work well for autocross

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well that says a lot. I'm betting by lap 2 the SS will be done passed the PP2. By lap 3 the PP2 will be lapped and on the side of the road.

Yep PP2 is a joke

Originally Posted by oldman

yep, and really since none of the coolers are for the supercharger, one may argue that it has even better cooling than the ZL1.

That's what i was trying to explain to him.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

So these are the reasons why the Camaros were always more expensive than Mustangs. Because Ford cut corners and skimped out on their cars while GM made sure the Camaro was well equipped. And even at that, if you put aftermarket coolers on the Mustangs there is always the risk that a dealership will void the warranty. So I'm not sure why Ford even builds Mustangs like the PP2 then. Track tires, no extra coolers, if you put coolers on it you burn your warranty, if you race it on a track you burn your warranty, makes no sense.

Yep

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Nope, it's not just bragging rights. Some of us do want to enjoy our cars this way, and there are some legal ways to do it, even in the USA. I personally have gone 170+ plenty of times on a track with my Camaro SS, and that is without a supercharger. Legit timed speeds is what I mean. There are some legal places, yes in the USA, where I'm confident that I could get 180+ even with the car in this form, and remember that the ZL1 has that 650hp supercharged engine. So 180+ would be a very attainable goal for a ZL1, I'd personally take the normal ZL1 with the A10 for this.

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

As far as quoting me, I think that you misunderstood what I said. I definitely did not say that I went 170+ on a road course, I specifically said on a track. As someone else earlier in the thread posted, a road course is not the only kind of track that exists.

Nope, the video earlier showed a ZL1 not hitting 180 at the Texas mile so keep on with the bragging rights. And yeah what track? A runway is still not a track even by the dictionary

Originally Posted by Rodan

Well, it's not.
You are talking about events on closed public roads (like the Silver State), and runways (standing 1/2 mile/mile etc), and conflating it with closed course road racing tracks, which is what most people mean when they're refering to "road courses".
At this point it's pretty obvious you're doing it deliberately to be argumentive. Please stop.

Originally Posted by TreedYou

That's right take the easy way out instead of being wrong.
I am surprised you don't take issue with the word hamburger being that there is no "ham" in the "burger"
Do you see what I did there?

He's ridiculous

Originally Posted by TreedYou

Holy moses on rubber crutches just say you're wrong man!
And you wonder why people get into it with you.
You're sitting here changing definitions for known car community terms so that you won't be "technically" wrong.
Do you know how silly that is?

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Pretty obvious most of the people here are referring to a road course where road racing is done, either a closed circuit or street circuit. That was the original talking point, that there was no road racing road course where the gt500 could hit 180mph. Legally there closed plubic road events or "tracks" like the texas mile or a runway rental where those speeds would be achievable but nobody was talking about that. You also never disclosed where you hit 180mph so the conversation continued and turned into this. This could have been ended a long time ago. Some might even classify an oval track as a road course, erroneously or not, but nobody classifies a long straight away type track as a roadcourse regardless of it being on a paved road.

He doesn't understand... Nope oval isn't a road course, why else would it be called a Roval when tracks use the interior road course with the ovals.

Originally Posted by TreedYou

Well CLEARLY they are all wrong, look it up in the dictionary!
I almost can't believe he went there and tried to change a known term so he won't be wrong.
I did not expect him to go that far, that's dedication! lol
Blaq the next "racing" term you should tackle is "tree" because they are definitely NOT MADE OF WOOD and tree's DO NOT GROW LIGHTS!
Just look it up and the truth is right there!

Originally Posted by DaveC113

PP2 is ridiculous imo, it's seriously compromised for street driving due to it's tire choice, both size and type, so it tramlines and is a PITA to drive. Yet it's also seriously compromised for track and according to Ford, isn't designed for it. Further, the tire choice costs far too much to maintain for the car it's on, I can't believe any PP2 owners are going to keep on buying Cup2 tires for ANY use. If they could afford that, they could afford a far better car in the first place.

100%

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

It was actually two years apart, 2016 (for the 2017 SS1LE) and 2018 (for the 2018 PP2). But your point is still valid, there is no same-day same-driver test between theset two, and one second on a three minute lap could very easliy be due to conditions. We need a real head-to-head! ThrottleHouse did a head-to-head with these two cars, but put them both on the same tires, and the 1LE won by a bit more than one second on their local track.

Yeah i was going to mention the Throttlehouse track test

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

People say this, but all it did was get a better lap on the lightning lap, different drivers and days, hardly objective. Randy ran them both, on different days though, and was faster with the 1le. Throttle house clearly proved the 1le is a superior built performance vehicle. Its not even questionable, the pp2 can hang for a bit but its not like its faster before it quits.

100%

Originally Posted by oldman

Nurburing is a road course. Speeds top out at just under 200 MPH for "production" cars. Done... move on.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/a...nitive-rundown
Here is a 249 MPH road course run: https://gtspirit.com/2012/04/06/koen...o-nurburgring/

Originally Posted by TreedYou

Must be fun to jump in right at the end and miss the original argument.
"A ROAD COURSE IN AMERICA" Blaq is not from Germany.

Right and Oldman we are also talking about a stock ZL1 hitting 180 not any car.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Oh wait, I'm lying. I don't own these cars nor am I doing any of this because all I do is make up stuff on here. I'll photoshop a Hellcat on a lift tomorrow getting tires done. Or I'll steal someone else's pics and claim it is my car. And I'll do the same when the blower and LTs arrive. Afterall I'm just a fraud.

No one ever said you didn't own (lease) these cars. We know what you lie about and what you don't. Stop being so dramatic

Originally Posted by TreedYou

oh yes... was holding on to this for a bit, since I figured he would stick to his lie till the end.
Camaro ZL1 1LE took 2.7 miles and it only got to 178, just in case you believes his BS about going past 180 mph on any road course in 'merica.
Fun fact he wouldn't even hit 180 on the Talladega speedway as it's longest straight is 2.5 miles.

Video is absolutely perfect! The entire Talladega speedway is only 2.66 miles though it doesn't have a 2.5 mile straight.

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

My close friend owns a RedEye (awesome car), and he sent me this vid also. He was first to point out the DR vs the R888s. MPH goes to the Shelby. What I'm most curious about is how strong the DCT clutches are, and how low can they bring the GT500 60' before the clutches start slipping/wrecking.
I would have preferred both cars on a DR for this video, but still props to the RE - just wish you could get one with a manual like the HCs.

Yeah they both need DRs

[BlaqWhole]

Not worth it. I'd rather ignore the bullshit than put this thread back off track.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

That would be the most attractive Mustang they have offered up to now in this Gen in my opinion. I am not a GT500 buyer, not a Shelby buyer either due to paying for a badge plus the mark-ups. But that car would be really awesome and I would consider buying one, as long as that 6-speed was a Tremec. I think it would destroy GT350 sales, so the rumor shaffe mentions below would have to be true if this could ever happen. The GT500 buyer doesnt want a supercharged PP2(just a GT after all), they want the most powerful Mustang you can buy and they also want it to have a Shelby GT500 badge on it! Those sales would be safe I think.

That's what they should have done in the first place instead of trying to take on the ZLE. A 650+ HP Mustang with full options, proper cooling, and on a PP2-ish suspension with a good tire and none of that CF nonsense. MSRP around $65K - $70K. It would have landed them right where they are now anyway without all the expense or a $94K tag. It wouldn't have beaten the ZLE but it would hang with the ZL1 and be able to run 10s.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Not worth it. I'd rather ignore the bullshit than put this thread back off track.

I know you're not referring to my post because i don't post bullshit.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

That's what they should have done in the first place instead of trying to take on the ZLE. A 650+ HP Mustang with full options, proper cooling, and on a PP2-ish suspension with a good tire and none of that CF nonsense. MSRP around $65K - $70K. It would have landed them right where they are now anyway without all the expense or a $94K tag. It wouldn't have beaten the ZLE but it would hang with the ZL1 and be able to run 10s.

Nailed it!! That could have worked as a no-holds barred PP2 or even an upgrade to GT350.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Nailed it!! That could have worked as a no-holds barred PP2 or even an upgrade to GT350.

No way... GT500 CFTP has far better profit margins and the Shelby hype.