[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by sadpanda

I never said GM wasn't innovative with technology (hydro forming, early CAD/CAM & mainframe computing funding and adopter, automatic trans, catalytic converter, air bag, HUD etc) HOWEVER, they normally just follow suit with overall design. Ie mustang>f-body, bronco>blazer, 50s euro sports cars >corvette, German sedans for decades>zeta platform....

Back to dampers... When you say GM invented MRC, you mean Delphi; which was owned by GM until the majority sale in 1999 and completely devested (suspension/brake wise) in 2009 with BWI purchase. The earliest related damper patent I found was granted to Delphi in '02, well after the GM majority sale. GM likely negotiated a 5 year exclusive, though in that early stage, I doubt there would have been any other takers.
So the idea of Ferrari/Honda/BMW/Audi/Lambo coming to GM, hat in hand asking for MRC is simply false.


Furthermore, Delphi did not invent the magnetorheological damper, they simply improved it... First proposed and patented in the 50's but not really refined/put into practical use until 1992 by Lord Corp

Well, what you did say was: "First of all its GM so you gotta know they never make new sauce, they copy old sauce." No way for me to guess what you mean. I can only read what you say. And that statement suggests that GM just copies designs and completely lacks innovation. Not sure how else to understand a word "never".

The fact that GM decided to take Delphi public for biz reasons is besides the point here. Even public companies have majority shareholders who in effect control them and still benefit financially. Tesla is public, but we all know who owns it, right? How the company is structured legally is besides the point. The fact is that Delphi is credited with the first MagneRide damper. And yes, Ferrari used them. And then various other Euro auto manufacturers. Lord Corp did assist Delphi as a production supplier, but their specialty was medical field.

Anyhow, GM MRC is widely regarded as best in the biz. There is a good reasons for that. Cheers!

[Provoste]

Originally Posted by NeverDie

^ fun at parties

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Well, what you did say was: "First of all its GM so you gotta know they never make new sauce, they copy old sauce." No way for me to guess what you mean. I can only read what you say. And that statement suggests that GM just copies designs and completely lacks innovation. Not sure how else to understand a word "never".

The fact that GM decided to take Delphi public for biz reasons is besides the point here. Even public companies have majority shareholders who in effect control them and still benefit financially. Tesla is public, but we all know who owns it, right? How the company is structured legally is besides the point. The fact is that Delphi is credited with the first MagneRide damper. And yes, Ferrari used them. And then various other Euro auto manufacturers. Lord Corp did assist Delphi as a production supplier, but their specialty was medical field.

Anyhow, GM MRC is widely regarded as best in the biz. There is a good reasons for that. Cheers!

My brother (who I also race with) is a major OEM ride and handling managing engineer. He echos that GM is the industry standard in relation to magnetic dampers. He also has stated that in benchmarking other makes for his work, GM’s Alpha platform is probably the best front engine/rear drive platform ever created.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by sadpanda

First of all its GM so you gotta know they never make new sauce, the copy old sauce.

In this case they copied very good old sauce:

While I get where you are coming from on not being the first to market at much, it's kind of a weird view to take on a company pursuing new market entry in to an existing segment of the industry. This is literally what makes capitalism and competition work for the consumer.

They don't 'copy old sauce', they enter into a market segment with the intention of competing, not copying. Just a difference in perspective I suppose, and maybe some over simplification.

[cdrptrks]

Just saw Randy repping the 1LE series and Camaro6 as a guest on a new Youtube video! His part starts around 1:51. Of course I would recommend stretching the $25k budget a bit to accommodate a used SS 1LE instead but he does have a point. Also that channel has lots of entertaining car stories.


His reasoning is pretty funny too:
ZL1 1LE = Hospital
SS 1LE = Jail
1LT 1LE = Best alternative

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

Just saw Randy repping the 1LE series and Camaro6 as a guest on a new Youtube video! His part starts around 1:51. Of course I would recommend stretching the $25k budget a bit to accommodate a used SS 1LE instead but he does have a point. Also that channel has lots of entertaining car stories.


His reasoning is pretty funny too:
ZL1 1LE = Hospital
SS 1LE = Jail
1LT 1LE = Best alternative

Great video and some great recommendations imo.
Randy has a point, especially for a near new DD with majority of warranty still intact.

My personal choice would be a low mileage C5Z hands down - for much less than $25k. Reliable, cheap to maintain and still stinky fast. Best value for an inexpensive track car. Especially a trailered one with slicks on

SS 1LE: best value for a dual purpose car. Hands down.
Yep, I will be buying a new one.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Great video and some great recommendations imo.
Randy has a point, especially for a near new DD with majority of warranty still intact.

My personal choice would be a low mileage C5Z hands down - for much less than $25k. Reliable, cheap to maintain and still stinky fast. Best value for an inexpensive track car. Especially a trailered one with slicks on

SS 1LE: best value for a dual purpose car. Hands down.
Yep, I will be buying a new one.

I agree with you on the C5 Z06 with a few caveats...

The clutches on those are notorious for sticking to the floor when the car is driven hard (all 4 of my C5 Z06's did this)

You need aftermarket brake rotors, the stock ones warp quite often.

In all but the 04's, you need to upgrade to better shocks than stock, as the tuning of the 01' to 03's left something to be desired.

Other than that though, it is an amazing performer and because they are so light, they are very tossable and quick. If I was in the market for a C5 Z06 now, I would look for one that has been professionally built up already. If you take a stock one, you will need to put about $10K into it, and at that point, a SS 1LE would be a better option from a financial proposition . BUT, there is something amazing about throwing around a 3150lb car with 405HP.

[Redlinez]

Don't forget about C5's rear diffs leaking and a slew of other issues. If you aren't mechanically able, it gets expensive quick. They are also inherently expensive when it comes time for a clutch or major performance upgrades.
Randy has to be one of the most universally liked and praised drivers and commentators out there. Such a genuinely nice and earnest guy. Tries to help anyone and everyone who he has personal contact with.

[Boost Creep]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

Just saw Randy repping the 1LE series and Camaro6 as a guest on a new Youtube video! His part starts around 1:51. Of course I would recommend stretching the $25k budget a bit to accommodate a used SS 1LE instead but he does have a point. Also that channel has lots of entertaining car stories.


His reasoning is pretty funny too:
ZL1 1LE = Hospital
SS 1LE = Jail
1LT 1LE = Best alternative

I watch those videos daily, some good stories, some not so much.
My big draw to the channel was the cannonball run content, the series Ed did with Tavarish and Hoovie was a good watch, it's over on Tavarish's channel.

[TrackClub]

Well, I had owned and tracked a C5Z for over 10 years and logged way over 150 track days.
Yes, the OEM clutch eventually goes. But replacing it with a C6 Z06 unit fixes the problem. Yep, F brakes ain't great, but I ran DBAs with good success, before upgrading to AP Racing kit (would not do it again due to high costs, including consumables). Never had any issues with the diff.

If I ever got one again, I'd upgrade hubs to SRF for peace of mind, F brakes, shocks (which go with age anyway), seats, valve springs and just wait for the clutch to go. Then after a few years do a stage 2 tranny rebuild (as I did with mine as a preventive maintenenace). Exhaust is an easy incremental power mod. LS6 is an incredibly stout motor in a stock form. A built up LS3 is always a good replacement option straight from GM.

Imo it is a superb platform for a track car. Either starting out as somebody's well preserved garage queen for cheap, or an already built out full on racer (usually offered with tons of spares, etc).

It is incredible how competitive this car is even now, in a stock form, just with slicks on (and a competent driver).