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Old 06-06-2018, 08:46 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danhr View Post
Most auto 6th gens do put down ~20 rwhp less? Example... lots of m6 guys are getting very close to 500 rwhp with FBO/E85. I have a FBO e85 a8 car and mine just did 480

And most a8s dont dyno 400+ rwhp. Most are 390ish. With a 17% drivetrain loss, that would mean 470 hp at the flywheel. Isn't terribly hard to believe.

Not trying to have an arguement... just a conversation.
Ted at jannetty seen ~15 rwhp difference when tested same day iirc. If the auto is in 6th. He gets 425-430 m6 and 410-415 a8 on his dyno

I also wonder if these engine dynos they are doing do not likely match the sae protocol. Certain temp. Full accessory load. Full factory exhaust (well in this case full exhaust as in whatever the car is running). I’ve seen a stock ls3 make something like 500 hp on an engine dyno with open headers and no accessories. If they are basing rwhp loss figures from a higher than normal engine dyno in the first place perceived drivetrain loss will be inflated as well
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Old 06-06-2018, 08:49 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by BradfordCamaro View Post
Every auto would be putting down 20HPish less on every dyno run. I just haven't see that on the countless dyno postings.
If you are pulling 405-410 w/A8 stock on a dyno that would mean almost a 500hp lt1. Not likely

I dont dispute his numbers or anyones really.
I just have a different way to figure it out

Anyways. We will continue with the regular scheduled programming. Sorry for the interruption.
Cheers.

I want a bigger Cam now......
How do you figure it out? What Engine dyno do you use for testing? What have you seen an LT1 put down on one? We use a Superflow black widow and have seen stock LT1s (3 test mules) make on average 498-513hp crank on factory pull outs. After bolting them behind a 8L90 we have seen and using our Mainline dyno we would see on average of 412whp-425whp. weeks of back to back testing. After doing our match we saw 17% loss.






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Old 06-06-2018, 08:56 AM   #45
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Are they making 500 with full factory exhaust and accessories load ? I’ve seen similar figures with an ls3 on an engine dyno. Same with the ls1. 418 hp open header no accessories

IMO an open header and no accessory test is more like the gross hp ratings if the 60s. Your procedure does not match the SAE protocol that found 455-460 hp. Or maybe I’m off here would like to know more...
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Old 06-06-2018, 08:56 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by 62nalide View Post
How do you figure it out? What Engine dyno do you use for testing? What have you seen an LT1 put down on one? We use a Superflow black widow and have seen stock LT1s (3 test mules) make on average 498-513hp crank on factory pull outs. After bolting them behind a 8L90 we have seen and using our Mainline dyno we would see on average of 412whp-425whp. weeks of back to back testing. After doing our match we saw 17% loss.






So awesome you guys have the capability to do that. Is the Mainline dyno the one you can roll away? I need to get a dyno.

My thoughts about the discrepancies is that the Industry standard is SAE for Manufactures. So as the motor will sit in the car with all the accessories and emissions and all of that. Most engine dyno's by "shops" are done with an EWP and not much attached to the motor like 4 cats and all of that junk. So there has to be a difference in numbers from the differences in testing procedures.
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Old 06-06-2018, 08:59 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by bhillakaiceberg View Post
Agreed. But like you said....the track should be the defining factor on a setup. At least in my mind. Don't really care to see Dyno Kings!!

Glad to see more ppl racing 6th Gens, but still not that many yet.
Yup, weight, weather, and mph are the three main determining factors at the track. Then car set up.
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:31 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by PRAY View Post
So awesome you guys have the capability to do that. Is the Mainline dyno the one you can roll away? I need to get a dyno.

My thoughts about the discrepancies is that the Industry standard is SAE for Manufactures. So as the motor will sit in the car with all the accessories and emissions and all of that. Most engine dyno's by "shops" are done with an EWP and not much attached to the motor like 4 cats and all of that junk. So there has to be a difference in numbers from the differences in testing procedures.
No doubt...I remember back in the day a guy with a 04 GTO had a bolt-on setup with a set of AI ported stock castings and stock cam. it made like 390-400. he took the belt off for a Dyno pull and it made around 420. Big difference in power when the engine is not spinning any accessories.
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:58 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1 View Post
Are they making 500 with full factory exhaust and accessories load ? Iíve seen similar figures with an ls3 on an engine dyno. Same with the ls1. 418 hp open header no accessories

IMO an open header and no accessory test is more like the gross hp ratings if the 60s. Your procedure does not match the SAE protocol that found 455-460 hp. Or maybe Iím off here would like to know more...
Yes factory exhaust manifolds and without the oem accessories. We pulled off the LT1 before we modded it and put it on our engine dyno saw 498hp crank camaro exhaust manifolds vs the C7 making in the 500s.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:01 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by PRAY View Post
So awesome you guys have the capability to do that. Is the Mainline dyno the one you can roll away? I need to get a dyno.

My thoughts about the discrepancies is that the Industry standard is SAE for Manufactures. So as the motor will sit in the car with all the accessories and emissions and all of that. Most engine dyno's by "shops" are done with an EWP and not much attached to the motor like 4 cats and all of that junk. So there has to be a difference in numbers from the differences in testing procedures.
Yep these Mainlines are sweet
Test on the engine dyno were done with cats 4 on the camaro LT and 2 on the C7 reason why those would see over 500hp.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:07 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
No doubt...I remember back in the day a guy with a 04 GTO had a bolt-on setup with a set of AI ported stock castings and stock cam. it made like 390-400. he took the belt off for a Dyno pull and it made around 420. Big difference in power when the engine is not spinning any accessories.
My favorite mods in the late 90s were the freebies lol
Ac Power steering delete, shorter belt air filter removal, factory catback exhaust removal and that's how we used to get LS1 Fbodys in the mid 12s on a DR
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:58 AM   #52
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Let me ask a question to the cam experts. While I am not sure this is true for off the shelf cams, if you are custom grinding an NA cam for an m6 vs a8 for 1/8 or 1/4 mile racing, what cam specs would be different for the M6 vs a8?
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Old 06-06-2018, 11:05 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by DFW1LE View Post
Let me ask a question to the cam experts. While I am not sure this is true for off the shelf cams, if you are custom grinding an NA cam for an m6 vs a8 for 1/8 or 1/4 mile racing, what cam specs would be different for the M6 vs a8?

Not sure if you are aware but Zach Bowman 10.82 @130MPH (Current Fastest M6 NA 6th Gen) is running this exact same GPI Heads/Cam package....
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Old 06-06-2018, 11:52 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by bhillakaiceberg View Post
Not sure if you are aware but Zach Bowman 10.82 @130MPH (Current Fastest M6 NA 6th Gen) is running this exact same GPI Heads/Cam package....
I thought that might be the case, but am curious if there is an optimal solution cam spec wise depending on your transmission type.
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Old 06-06-2018, 01:07 PM   #55
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Why didn't you spin it higher?
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Old 06-06-2018, 02:15 PM   #56
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Why didn't you spin it higher?

It was spun to 7K. Why spin it any higher on the dyno?

Although I do shift higher at the track.... LMAO
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