[danhr]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

My understanding is Methanol injection sprayed front of throttle body does not produce the same cooling effect in the cylinder during combustion as Ethanol injected at 2000+ psi.

Mike AKA toohighpsi had some good data on the subject posted a while back.

agreed, but is the additional timing attributed to the cooling or the octane?

[laynlo15]

Don't let the corrected numbers go to your head at the track or on the dyno. They really don't mean anything. What you ran or what your car made on the dyno that day are the real numbers.
Most canned tunes are rich and Magnuson's was also as its safer for the companies to give you a tune that's rich and not to lean, they don't want to be buying customers new motors. When I first did my 2300 it only made low 5s, the PE tables needed some tweaking which we did before I went to the track the first time. We made no other adjustments but the PE and it made about 549 and ran 10.80s@129 first weekend out at Gateway. Not sure what part of Missouri you live in but I wouldn't go back to the track until you get your tune fixed. I'd be willing to bet it is pig rich right now and its not going to make any power and its sure not going to make any good passes at the track. Good luck and get a tune on the dyno to get all the issues lined out before you go back to the track. Your car should be running at least low 11s at 125 with your setup or maybe quicker. Hope you get it lined out because good air will be hear in Missouri in a month and then you can reap the benefits of good DA and lower temps.

[laynlo15]

I sent you a PM.
You should consider purchasing HP Tuners Mpvi2 and add a 02 bung so you can log your run after you get it tuned and that would allow you to send log files to the tuner for changes in the editor files.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by Crush365

Just ran my 2019 Camaro procharged on Friday at Summit Motorsports Park in Norwalk, Ohio.

D1sc, stainless works headers, 3" exhaust, Lt4 injectors/pumps, tune, weld wheels with 305-45-17's

11.47 at 123; and
11.27 at 126 (video below)


I believe the car has a little more in it. IAT's were a little high and I launched from idle. I think if I brought the rpms up a little at the line, it would have done slightly better

I agree that there is more left in it, the 126 mph shows promise, would be curious to see the timeslip.

When you say the IATs were high, were you datalogging your runs?

As far as revving it up on the line, you can try it, but for my A8 SS with the stock torque converter, it did not help the ET. I had a centri blower much like yours (base Paxton with stock exhaust) and a radial drag pack, and I preferred launching from idle, getting 1.6 short times and ETs of 10.9~11.0 with trap speeds of 123~125 in summer heat (only made a few runs with that combination).

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by danhr

agreed, but is the additional timing attributed to the cooling or the octane?

I believe it's more from octane then cooling with Meth. The thing is with SBE cars running Meth is it cools the Air temp coming in to keep the ECU from pulling timing and the increased octane allows for a lot more timing, but the cylinder temps still get pretty high because there isn't the same level of cylinder cooling on combustion compared to spraying Ethanol through the injection system... and the rings will butt if you try to run the timing up to the point where you see some KR and pull it back a degree or 2. This is why I believe there is a lot of pump gas/meth failures on SBE cars.

I am no expert by a long shot and honestly not sure what is safe on a SBE car with Meth. Need to be able to log EGT's but nobody seems to go that far with them. The normal routine seems to be pull it apart and do rods/pistons/cam instead of seeing how far a SBE LT1 will go on boost. Be cool to see somebody like Brett really push one. Gap the rings, monitor EGT, cold Brisk plug, high octane fuel like C85, and moon boost. But gapping the rings kind of removes it from the SBE conversation.

I know Brett now tunes LT4's on meth to run a bit richer then he use too. And I think it's for the reasons I mention above. They won't live tuning them around .82-.84 because of the increased cylinder temps. On straight E it's no problem but add Meth and you need to get them down into the .77 range.

Either way Meth definitely works, it just needs to be used correctly. If I understood it more, I might give it a shot. But I have it in my mind I want to fuel my engine DI only for simplicity even though it costs a arm and a leg.

[Crush365]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

I agree that there is more left in it, the 126 mph shows promise, would be curious to see the timeslip.

When you say the IATs were high, were you datalogging your runs?

As far as revving it up on the line, you can try it, but for my A8 SS with the stock torque converter, it did not help the ET. I had a centri blower much like yours (base Paxton with stock exhaust) and a radial drag pack, and I preferred launching from idle, getting 1.6 short times and ETs of 10.9~11.0 with trap speeds of 123~125 in summer heat (only made a few runs with that combination).

Thanks for the input. I have a Banks data monster. Wasn't logging my runs, but saw the IAT at around 121-130 at the line. This was around 50-60 degrees over ambient. (Sat in staging lanes for a while)

I can try to upload time slips later - 60's were 1.72 and 1.73

[s346k]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Either way Meth definitely works, it just needs to be used correctly. If I understood it more, I might give it a shot. But I have it in my mind I want to fuel my engine DI only for simplicity even though it costs a arm and a leg.

do you know how much power the lingenfelter parts will support on ethanol only? what i want from the car points to a blower but i want to run e and i'm not interested in meth injection or blending fuels.

fwiw i got the same thing from meth that you do. it will cool an air intake charge if injected into the intake. it will cool the cylinder during combustion if used as a fuel. it seems to me that the flash is still hot but the recession is what pulls all the heat out.

[cjperformance]

Was looking at the current tune on the car... being purposely vague here... but NOT the stock tune.

Does this basically nerf the Speed Density and VVE to rely more on MAF or... is it doing the opposite?

It doesn't look like the VVE tables were touched between stock and current tune.

If that's the case, then trying to do a speed-density tune is gonna make me go immediately lean if i disable MAF :(

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by cjperformance

Was looking at the current tune on the car... being purposely vague here... but NOT the stock tune.

Does this basically nerf the Speed Density and VVE to rely more on MAF or... is it doing the opposite?

It doesn't look like the VVE tables were touched between stock and current tune.

They appear to be trying to run “MAF only” which I disagree with. The entire system is torque (and therefore airflow) based. Getting the VVE table correct is part of a proper tune. Even more critical on a cammed car IMO.

[cjperformance]

Wonder if that's part of what's making the throttle response so .... bleh.... at part throttle and below 3k - 4k rpm.

I noticed some changes in cam advance too in that range and some SOI changes.

Meh... I guess I'll start by tuning the MAF and just see where it gets me.

Sounds like it's MAF only right now.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by laynlo15

Don't let the corrected numbers go to your head at the track or on the dyno. They really don't mean anything. What you ran or what your car made on the dyno that day are the real numbers.

Yes, and no. No because DA makes a big difference when comparing runs. Running an 11.2 @ 126 mph in 5000' DA will be MUCH faster than that in good conditions. It is deep into the 10s in good air. It is also a quicker car than a car that runs 11.1 @ 127 mph in -100' DA.

If you can get consistent DAs then there's really no need to correct them since the runs will be apples to apples. But running your stock car at 5000' DA (i.e., hot summer afternoon), then adding a cold air intake and running again at 500' DA doesn't mean your car improved due to the CAI, it improved because of the better air. So in this case, the runs wouldn't be comparable.

My 2 cents.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by cjperformance

Wonder if that's part of what's making the throttle response so .... bleh.... at part throttle and below 3k - 4k rpm.

I noticed some changes in cam advance too in that range and some SOI changes.

Meh... I guess I'll start by tuning the MAF and just see where it gets me.

Sounds like it's MAF only right now.

Not really...maf only tune fine on stock heads/cam cars. Even though I agree VVE tuning is the correct way, it's far more important on modified engines.

Your throttle response issue is likely in other areas of the tune.

Either way if you decide to tune VVE and disable the MAF you will have to over shoot the VVE in the cells where you hit boost then pull fuel out as you log data. You want it to be rich...look up VVE tuning @ goatrope garage on YT.

[cjperformance]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Not really...maf only tune fine on stock heads/cam cars. Even though I agree VVE tuning is the correct way, it's far more important on modified engines.

Your throttle response issue is likely in other areas of the tune.

Either way if you decide to tune VVE and disable the MAF you will have to over shoot the VVE in the cells where you hit boost then pull fuel out as you log data. You want it to be rich...look up VVE tuning @ goatrope garage on YT.

Goatrope has been my primary source of info so far, along with this board

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by s346k

do you know how much power the lingenfelter parts will support on ethanol only? what i want from the car points to a blower but i want to run e and i'm not interested in meth injection or blending fuels.

fwiw i got the same thing from meth that you do. it will cool an air intake charge if injected into the intake. it will cool the cylinder during combustion if used as a fuel. it seems to me that the flash is still hot but the recession is what pulls all the heat out.

FIC +30 and LPE di pump with a low side should handle 700whp on pump E. At least that is what Brett told me. I wouldn't buy LPE injectors because the FIC can be had for a bit less if you know where to look.

I am considering grabbing a set of the FIC +30 being they will allow me to lower rail pressure some and run more E. Not sure if I can get back to full pump E but it should be close. It will probably be one of those deals where I can run full pump E in the warmer months and have to drop back when it cools down because Supercharged cars make 1.5- 2psi more boost when it's 40-50 degrees vs 75+. Can always swap pulleys to keep boost the same throughout the season as well.