[KMPrenger]

Call me strange, but I want to see them expand the SRT brand into RAM or the upcoming mid-size (Dakota?) they are working on.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by Trans damm

and Camaro had the 19 refresh.. this brand loyalty thing is wearing on me. I don't drive my Z06 much since I have two small kids. I'm Really interested in an American 4 seater and was hoping Camaro's refresh with a "hotter" variant would be the car to do it. instead we got the 19 refresh.. The redeye is really tempting me at this point. I have always been a GM fan but this is getting hard.

Dude I know. For the first time I think in our lifetime, Chevy, Dodge, and Ford have something we can all cross shop and basically be at the same performance level for the same amount of $. With the 500 and the new Dodge upgrades, I'm wondering where that leaves the Zl1. I think the Zl1 gets roasted in a straight line, but still wins at the track so.



Either way, all brands now are making some sick ass muscle cars.

[Bhobbs]

It will be the last gen all over.

The ZL1 will be the least powerful and slowest in a straight line and probably the fastest around a track but the GT500 will be a lot closer than it should be.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

That's what I was thinking as well.

I think FCA is keep to avoid Ford's SNAFU when they said the 2009(?) GT500KR was going to be king of the hill, and then had the 2010/2011 GT500 come out with the same, if not more, power.

Which is why it is stupid to pay markups. Because you never know what the next year will bring. People were paying $10 markups on Hellcats just a year and a half ago. And now those cars are worth like mid $50K with less than 5K miles on them. And just a few months ago people were paying anywhere from $10K-$40K in markups for the Demon. And now I can't see the Demon being valuable with this Redeye coming out.

Originally Posted by Trans damm

and Camaro had the 19 refresh.. this brand loyalty thing is wearing on me. I don't drive my Z06 much since I have two small kids. I'm Really interested in an American 4 seater and was hoping Camaro's refresh with a "hotter" variant would be the car to do it. instead we got the 19 refresh.. The redeye is really tempting me at this point. I have always been a GM fan but this is getting hard.

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Hell, that would temp me to put a sale sign on my car. I really need 4 doors and power.

Well the CTS-V is also an option. Although it is much more expensive. Dodge basically is the only one making a car with this level of HP that can fit 4 full size adults and have storage space and have full options all for mid $60K.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Rumors out of Detroit indicate 550 HP/525 TQ on 91.

Either the 392 is going away (which I doubt since it's the basis of the 6.4L V8 in the Rams) or the 392 is going down trim to be the base R/T engine and the 5.7 is done.

Either way..interesting times

The 5.7 needs to be done. It really has no place in the Muscle Car segment these days. It is good by it's own merit. But seeing as how all the other V8s are well into the 400s and higher, I just don't see a future or purpose for the little 5.7.

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Call me strange

Hi Strange...

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

It will be the last gen all over.

The ZL1 will be the least powerful and slowest in a straight line and probably the fastest around a track but the GT500 will be a lot closer than it should be.

But look what it took for the ZL1 to get dethroned. And even at that, we still don't know if the GT500 will beat the ZL1 or ZL1 1LE around a track. The Hellcat sure won't. And at this point it is coming in at the cheapest. Plus it took these major revisions and 2+ years for the competition to step up to ZL1 performance levels. GM kinda raised the bar higher than it's ever been before with the SS 1LE and the ZL1. They basically gave us a cheaper Z06.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Dude I know. For the first time I think in our lifetime, Chevy, Dodge, and Ford have something we can all cross shop and basically be at the same performance level for the same amount of $. With the 500 and the new Dodge upgrades, I'm wondering where that leaves the Zl1. I think the Zl1 gets roasted in a straight line, but still wins at the track so.



Either way, all brands now are making some sick ass muscle cars.

Here's the thing. Not to bash Ford, but they seem to be the only ones who still haven't announced many details. So the ZR1 is out for purchase. We know the changes to the Hellcat and we know it will be available for purchase for 2019. In fact, I think the ordering banks will be opening soon. But for the GT500, we don't know when it'll be available, we don't know exactly how much HP it'll have, we don't know the MSRP or if Ford will be doing anything to prevent dealer markups, and at this point I can't even say for sure if it'll be actually available for 2020 instead of 2019. So why is it taking Ford this long? They waited until basically the end of last year to reveal the 18 GT specs. So what gives? At this point people who are in the market for high powered cars might be swayed to just go and buy a HC-R (Hellcat Redeye) instead of waiting indefinitely for Ford.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The 5.7 needs to be done. It really has no place in the Muscle Car segment these days. It is good by it's own merit. But seeing as how all the other V8s are well into the 400s and higher, I just don't see a future or purpose for the little 5.7.

Yes, I agree completely.

It's really a good motor for something like a smaller truck or even for something like the Charger that needs more than the 3.6L and less than a 392...and since FCA seems extremely stubborn in bringing any sort of boosted six in..well..

But it's really not a performance V8 anymore. It stood up well to the 4.6L 3V and early Coyote..but that's about it. It was never a match for the L99, not even close to the LS3 and was only close to the 5.3

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Here's the thing. Not to bash Ford, but they seem to be the only ones who still haven't announced many details. So the ZR1 is out for purchase. We know the changes to the Hellcat and we know it will be available for purchase for 2019. In fact, I think the ordering banks will be opening soon. But for the GT500, we don't know when it'll be available, we don't know exactly how much HP it'll have, we don't know the MSRP or if Ford will be doing anything to prevent dealer markups, and at this point I can't even say for sure if it'll be actually available for 2020 instead of 2019. So why is it taking Ford this long? They waited until basically the end of last year to reveal the 18 GT specs. So what gives? At this point people who are in the market for high powered cars might be swayed to just go and buy a HC-R (Hellcat Redeye) instead of waiting indefinitely for Ford.

the only thing thing that makes sense to me is the delay from Tremec for the DCT. nothing else would take this long if it was in house... other than the DCT they aren't reinventing the wheel.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

the only thing thing that makes sense to me is the delay from Tremec for the DCT. nothing else would take this long if it was in house... other than the DCT they aren't reinventing the wheel.

Then why not launch with the M6 and add the DCT when it’s ready?

[JhonnyGTR]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Then why not launch with the M6 and add the DCT when it’s ready?

Isn't going to be DCT only?

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Then why not launch with the M6 and add the DCT when it’s ready?

there may be no manual option.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

But look what it took for the ZL1 to get dethroned. And even at that, we still don't know if the GT500 will beat the ZL1 or ZL1 1LE around a track. The Hellcat sure won't. And at this point it is coming in at the cheapest. Plus it took these major revisions and 2+ years for the competition to step up to ZL1 performance levels. GM kinda raised the bar higher than it's ever been before with the SS 1LE and the ZL1. They basically gave us a cheaper Z06.

Not sure what you mean. The Hellcat was out first. The ZL1 may have matched the Hellcat, but it won't now, especially the Redeye version.

This is just the Hellcat taking the top spot back. The issue is Camaro won't have another competitor for a few years. The 6th gen is done at this point and will coast into the 7th based on whats already been released. Then we have at least one year of the 7th gen with the base models.

By that time, Dodge will already have the 426 Challengers out and who knows what to replace the Hellcat.

[JhonnyGTR]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Not sure what you mean. The Hellcat was out first. The ZL1 may have matched the Hellcat, but it won't now, especially the Redeye version.

This is just the Hellcat taking the top spot back. The issue is Camaro won't have another competitor for a few years. The 6th gen is done at this point and will coast into the 7th based on whats already been released. Then we have at least one year of the 7th gen with the base models.

By that time, Dodge will already have the 426 Challengers out and who knows what to replace the Hellcat.

The Dated Challenger is getting Serious every year

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by JhonnyGTR

The Dated Challenger is getting Serious every year

Whether or not its dated doesn't matter. They make the improvements people care about, which is why Challenger sales are trending up.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Not sure what you mean. The Hellcat was out first. The ZL1 may have matched the Hellcat, but it won't now, especially the Redeye version.

This is just the Hellcat taking the top spot back. The issue is Camaro won't have another competitor for a few years. The 6th gen is done at this point and will coast into the 7th based on whats already been released. Then we have at least one year of the 7th gen with the base models.

By that time, Dodge will already have the 426 Challengers out and who knows what to replace the Hellcat.

What I mean is that when the ZL1 arrived, it took the top spot as it had the best quarter mile time stock for stock and it got around a track faster than anything Dodge or Ford had in the same price range. The GT350R nor the Hellcat could beat the ZL1 in a straight line or around a track and the ZL1 was the cheapest (MSRP) and the only one of them that never had markups.

So now the ZL1 has been on top since 2017 MY, it will take this new Redeye from Dodge to beat it in a quarter mile and that is if FCA throws a decent tire on it and if it can put that power to the ground effectively. It won't beat the ZL1 around a track tho.

Ford needs the GT500 with a massive new power plant and the A10 trans to overpower the ZL1 in a straight line. And it is debatable whether or not the GT500 will be able to beat the ZL1 1LE around a track. And then you have to factor in how much the GT500 will cost and if it can be had without markups. Because at the price it comes in at it might not even be in ZL1 territory. And it might not even be available until 2020.

So that is what I mean. It basically will have taken Dodge 2 MYs to beat the ZL1 in a straight line provided it meets the aforementioned criteria. And it will have taken Ford 3 MYs to beat them and even then the ZL1 won't be the worst at everything. So it basically is taking a lot of time and everything to be throw at the ZL1 and even then it still will be a very capable car and will still be much cheaper than these other two.