[seanblurr]

For those with track pads, how much do the pads rub unloaded?

On my current set, they appear to be rubbing quite a bit more than previous sets.

Enough friction to prevent a full turn if I spin the wheel in the air, and I can hear the pads constantly driving down the street.

(DTC 70/60's w/ 9 sessions)

[Move_Over]

That’s always been pretty normal for track pads. I can hear mine squeaking a little bit at low speed and mine stop too on the lift. The uneven pad wear from having 4/6 piston brakes are to thank for that.

I was taught to flip the pads from side to side to encourage better wear. It seems to help, when i remember to do it.

[seanblurr]

Makes sense, I just don't remember it being this bad the last time I had track pads.

I can't drive with the windows down, too damn annoying. It's that bad.

[RUQWIKR]

Is the total thickness a bit more than stock, and are you running Ti shims?

Can't remember what brand, but, a year or so ago, I helped a friend change his pads. He was using Ti shims (a bit over 0.8mm thick), and the new aftermaket track pads (fronts) would not go in with the shims even making sure the pistons were fully compressed. The rears barely went in with the shims, but, you could basically not turn the brakes by hand. So, we pulled the shims out of the rears. After burnishing and one track day, he put the shims in both the front and rear.

If memory is correct, the pads were nearly 17mm total thickness (friction material & backing plate).

[driven2exceSS]

Hadn't noticed the drag noise when driving, predominantly garage area/pits, but I definitely have the friction upon spinning it unloaded too. Also just went DCT 70's all around verses 70/60 I've been running. DCT 70's now on rear for one event anyway, and I think I like the "balanced" bias better (at least for the vert)

[TrackClub]

Sean, I'd check the health of calipers. It is possible that the pistons are slightly binding and hence not releasing fully. I believe this is what happened to Nicky Bobby with Dtc70s. He ended up rebuilding the calipers (if i remember it correctly).

The other obvious culprit would be an overall increase in pad thickness. Either way when they rub cooling is affected. I had it happen with AP racing kit and double thickness pads on my Vette. We did caliper rebuilds regularly.

As a general "rant", i really dont know what folks are hoping to accomplish sticking *ultra high* torque pads on a street car, with street designed brake systems (incl cooling), perhaps even on street tires (or their amateur track equivalents). Other than premature wear of components.

Sure, some top shelf drivers on full slicks may gain a few tenths here and there (for a higher price of consumables, as the extra heat is simply impossible to be avoided). But for a vast majority it will increase difficulty of effective trail braking - an aspect which is so crucial to fast laps. Plus fry stuff up, incl tires. Rant over

[NickyRacerBoy]

Originally Posted by seanblurr

For those with track pads, how much do the pads rub unloaded?

On my current set, they appear to be rubbing quite a bit more than previous sets.

Enough friction to prevent a full turn if I spin the wheel in the air, and I can hear the pads constantly driving down the street.

(DTC 70/60's w/ 9 sessions)

I smoked my driver front caliper. Rebuild yours, parts available from RB.
Swear pedal feels better.

[seanblurr]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Sean, I'd check the health of calipers. It is possible that the pistons are slightly binding and hence not releasing fully. I believe this is what happened to Nicky Bobby with Dtc70s. He ended up rebuilding the calipers (if i remember it correctly).

The other obvious culprit would be an overall increase in pad thickness. Either way when they rub cooling is affected. I had it happen with AP racing kit and double thickness pads on my Vette. We did caliper rebuilds regularly.

As a general "rant", i really dont know what folks are hoping to accomplish sticking *ultra high* torque pads on a street car, with street designed brake systems (incl cooling), perhaps even on street tires (or their amateur track equivalents). Other than premature wear of components.

Sure, some top shelf drivers on full slicks may gain a few tenths here and there (for a higher price of consumables, as the extra heat is simply impossible to be avoided). But for a vast majority it will increase difficulty of effective trail braking - an aspect which is so crucial to fast laps. Plus fry stuff up, incl tires. Rant over

Well I preach stock pads, so I figured I would at least try the Hawks so I have real data to back my opinion.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by seanblurr

Well I preach stock pads, so I figured I would at least try the Hawks so I have real data to back my opinion.

I understand. So apart from Brownbonies possibly fried to medium rare...any new PBs due to DTC70s?

On a serious note, if WEC and IMSA pro teams can win races on pads with *medium* torque, while dealing with huge deceleration rates, not to mention competition, why on Earth are resellers pushing extreme torque pads to amateurs with street cars? It defies logic...

But, the power of retail marketing (and Internet "expert" peer pressure) is damn effective. And all too often it then leads to full brake "upgrades" for serious coin, which further empties one's wallet. Been there, done it, lost the tshirt lol.

Bottom line: i know what my pace is. I know that improving it has zero to do with brake pads

[Move_Over]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

I understand. So apart from Brownbonies possibly fried to medium rare...any new PBs due to DTC70s?

On a serious note, if WEC and IMSA pro teams can win races on pads with *medium* torque, while dealing with huge deceleration rates, not to mention competition, why on Earth are resellers pushing extreme torque pads to amateurs with street cars? It defies logic...

But, the power of retail marketing (and Internet "expert" peer pressure) is damn effective. And all too often it then leads to full brake "upgrades" for serious coin, which further empties one's wallet. Been there, done it, lost the tshirt lol.

Bottom line: i know what my pace is. I know that improving it has zero to do with brake pads

I am in total agreeance here. Not to gloat at all, but i am good friends with a pro DPI driver , brought him to the track with me and he drove my camaro with me for an open track day back in February. I had Gloc r16’s installed on the front axle, r12 on the rear. R16’s are around the equivalent of dtc70 maybe a little higher bite.

We swapped the fronts to r12’s after overheating the front r16’s (not enough heat in the rear so the fronts were taking the brunt of it). Jordan mentioned the r12’s were much more compliant, and easier to modulate with a little less torque up front. Not to mention we both put down a better lap time with r12’s over the r16’s. Now i know there are so many different driving styles, so take this all with a grain of salt. But just some food for thought!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Move_Over

I am in total agreeance here. Not to gloat at all, but i am good friends with a pro DPI driver , brought him to the track with me and he drove my camaro with me for an open track day back in February. I had Gloc r16’s installed on the front axle, r12 on the rear. R16’s are around the equivalent of dtc70 maybe a little higher bite.

We swapped the fronts to r12’s after overheating the front r16’s (not enough heat in the rear so the fronts were taking the brunt of it). Jordan mentioned the r12’s were much more compliant, and easier to modulate with a little less torque up front. Not to mention we both put down a better lap time with r12’s over the r16’s. Now i know there are so many different driving styles, so take this all with a grain of salt. But just some food for thought!

Thank you for posting this feedback. If i may say so: you are being overly modest, suggesting that we should take a superbly accomplished world class driver's recommendations with a grain of salt. If anything, this should be applied to amateur "experts", often following each other over a proverbial cliff - for no good reason at all, other than because some "SpeedyBilly" said so in a blog.

Not to gloat here either, but i rest my case, which is further validated by specific pad choices of top pro teams and their brake system design priorities. Incidentally this also supports my other posts not to stagger pads F vs R as it will further (and completely unnecessarily - on a Camaro) over work the fronts (which already do a lion's share of work).

Please congratulate Jordan for making Corvette Racing C8R team next year! Never met him personally, but have watched many of his races over the years. Cheers!

[driven2exceSS]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Not to gloat here either, but i rest my case, which is further validated by specific pad choices of top pro teams and their brake system design priorities. Incidentally this also supports my other posts not to stagger pads F vs R as it will further (and completely unnecessarily - on a Camaro) over work the fronts (which already do a lion's share of work).

I myself took your advice on the idea NOT to stagger the bias on the pads F to R from one of your previous "rants" (aka Posts ) I really think I like the "balanced" bias better (at least for the vert) after one event, Thank you. I have some hesitation going "backwards" on the high torque pad compound just yet. For me and my car they seem to be working and something I'm now comfortable with at this time anyways.

[FNxR3DNECK]

I had this a bit after the first event running DTC 60s (with Shims) on my car, I removed the shims to see if that would get rid of it and it did. So my guess is it mostly comes down to increased thickness. So at least on an SS 1LE if you have brand new Hawks with shims don't be surprised by a lil bit of dragging, but once they wear down a bit you're fine. Not sure how that applies to the Z though with different pad size/thickness.

[mt.nichols]

Mine drag in the same manner. GLoc R12/R10. No shims. They have dragged from new and are down to the thickness of the backplate now.