[HouseStark]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

I think a Trans Am could work alongside of a Camaro under the Corvette brand.

I would buy a second gen retro

[Mighty Mouce]

Originally Posted by Deputy Dog

Just updated again. The LT1 Engine has been removed and has been replaced with the new LT2 Corvette Engine. Along with the body changes the car now makes n/a 485 stock hp, and gets 30 mpg hwy fitted with the 6 spd Tremec trans.


I just updated the Camaro. Reduced about 20 lbs of sheet metal. Wider rear window as well as reduced the A pillars for a wider front glass. Side glass also increase 1.25in from top door to roof. Upgraded rear taillights with body colored horizontal dividers. Chevy has my permission to use this design for the next camaro model or refresh.

Mmmm.....LT2..

[Doc]

Every time one of these threads gets started, it always goes through the "if only GM would make a new older model" etc. Isn't going to happen, nor should it. Manufacturing techniques and crash safety regulations make it impossible for a mass manufacturer today to make the old style cars again.

If the Camaro as a model and brand is going to survive and go forward, it has to go forward in every way, including design and style. No more retro. An ICE version will have an impact on how the front is designed because of the engine, radiator, etc.. An all electric EV version can have a completely different style front because it doesn't have those things up there.

Don't start by thinking of a 1/4 mile car; think of it as a successful mass-market car that performance can be added to, but the base car is the one that sells to the biggest segment of the market. I know some of you don't want that; you don't want anybody driving in a car that looks like yours, but that's not a mass manufactured car; that's a custom specialty model. That's not a Camaro, nor was it ever a Camaro. Pony cars were mass market cars that owners could customize afterwards, which was part of the reason why they were so popular. You didn't have to be rich to buy or own one, and every weekend garage mechanic could modify their car to their heart's content.

That's no longer the case with today's performance cars. You DO have to be affluent to buy and own one, and they're not easy or cheap to modify anymore. Of course they do far more than any previous generation which manufacturers thought owners would want, and some do, but the vast majority were never that kind of owner. I believe this has a lot to do with the steady decline in sales.

If we can go back to the basics (not an old design) of what the mass market responds to, it would be number 1, looks. Number 2, what it looks and feels like to sit inside one. Exciting? Cool? or cramped and confusing... Number 3, cost; can I afford it? Am I willing to even stretch to get one because it's so cool looking and I REALLY REALLY want one?

Notice that none of those three have anything to do with Nurburgring times, 1/4 mile times, g-forces, track features, etc. Not even horsepower or 0-60 times. The first thing that's going to grab them is looks; pure and simple. If performance was the most important feature, the current Camaro would be selling like hot cakes, but it isn't. Let's learn from that and adjust accordingly. If we come up with a modern pony car, it just simply has to look totally bitchen; period. As Number 3 said, it has to be something we've never seen before. The rest is a matter of parts selection.

Think new; think in terms of what would appeal to the mass market, not gun-slit bunker windows with 30 inch wheels like you see every artist draw in their concept drawings. It has to look and be practical to some degree. People make fun of being able to put a bag of golf clubs inside, but that's a genuinely legitimate feature; especially for someone who has a big truck or SUV and would rather take something smaller and easier to navigate and park.

Think new, think simple. It's not going to be easy, otherwise somebody would have come up with it by now, so this is a real challenge. I like the feedback we've been getting so far, so keep the ideas coming!

[shaffe]

Basically, it needs to be a great coupe. Make a great coupe first, then focus on the other aspects

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by Mighty Mouce

Mmmm.....LT2..

Just made it an even 500hp with the new Corvette LT2 engine.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by Doc

Every time one of these threads gets started, it always goes through the "if only GM would make a new older model" etc. Isn't going to happen, nor should it. Manufacturing techniques and crash safety regulations make it impossible for a mass manufacturer today to make the old style cars again.

If the Camaro as a model and brand is going to survive and go forward, it has to go forward in every way, including design and style. No more retro. An ICE version will have an impact on how the front is designed because of the engine, radiator, etc.. An all electric EV version can have a completely different style front because it doesn't have those things up there.

Don't start by thinking of a 1/4 mile car; think of it as a successful mass-market car that performance can be added to, but the base car is the one that sells to the biggest segment of the market. I know some of you don't want that; you don't want anybody driving in a car that looks like yours, but that's not a mass manufactured car; that's a custom specialty model. That's not a Camaro, nor was it ever a Camaro. Pony cars were mass market cars that owners could customize afterwards, which was part of the reason why they were so popular. You didn't have to be rich to buy or own one, and every weekend garage mechanic could modify their car to their heart's content.

That's no longer the case with today's performance cars. You DO have to be affluent to buy and own one, and they're not easy or cheap to modify anymore. Of course they do far more than any previous generation which manufacturers thought owners would want, and some do, but the vast majority were never that kind of owner. I believe this has a lot to do with the steady decline in sales.

If we can go back to the basics (not an old design) of what the mass market responds to, it would be number 1, looks. Number 2, what it looks and feels like to sit inside one. Exciting? Cool? or cramped and confusing... Number 3, cost; can I afford it? Am I willing to even stretch to get one because it's so cool looking and I REALLY REALLY want one?

Notice that none of those three have anything to do with Nurburgring times, 1/4 mile times, g-forces, track features, etc. Not even horsepower or 0-60 times. The first thing that's going to grab them is looks; pure and simple. If performance was the most important feature, the current Camaro would be selling like hot cakes, but it isn't. Let's learn from that and adjust accordingly. If we come up with a modern pony car, it just simply has to look totally bitchen; period. As Number 3 said, it has to be something we've never seen before. The rest is a matter of parts selection.

Think new; think in terms of what would appeal to the mass market, not gun-slit bunker windows with 30 inch wheels like you see every artist draw in their concept drawings. It has to look and be practical to some degree. People make fun of being able to put a bag of golf clubs inside, but that's a genuinely legitimate feature; especially for someone who has a big truck or SUV and would rather take something smaller and easier to navigate and park.

Think new, think simple. It's not going to be easy, otherwise somebody would have come up with it by now, so this is a real challenge. I like the feedback we've been getting so far, so keep the ideas coming!

So build a Camaro crossover and problems fixed, twenty year old guys are buying $45k pickup trucks they can buy Camaros. The Camaro pricing is well within trucks and SUVs which are selling like crazy. If the Camaro looked better it will sell better, it really is that simple.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by Deputy Dog

Just made it an even 500hp with the new Corvette LT2 engine.

You actually want to build a car that looks like 95% of the one it will replace, after the failure of the 6th gen looking too much like the one it replaced. Just give it up.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by WarlockCamaro

Hello everyone!

It’s good to see that this thread is fully active lost of the time, it really makes me motivated to keep working on the project! As I said before I started school and I am currently interested in Automotive Aerodynamics, and I spoke with my professor through email (Online Class) and pitched my idea. He said during the semester we will be focusing on our car that we design and build from day one and that at the end of the semester we will have a finished car. I found it pretty convenient not only for me but for my side hobby which is this thread I guess? I plan on going into this long-term and I’ve read your replies and comments and found them very interesting. I renewed the car multiple times trying to make it pleasing to everyone, and the pics below are just concepts. My plan is for a front-engine Camaro, and for now, it is called the Camaro. It will have packages like the RS, SS ZL1 and such and will have a plug-in hybrid and fully electric version as well. In the near future, I will do the interior as well. To be honest the Camaro community can’t seem to agree on much regarding the design aspect of the car, but hopefully, with these mock-up ideas, we can maybe settle on something simplistic and aggressive.

Thank you for sticking around!

I think the lack of general agreement is happening because not everybody is starting at the beginning with a definition of what the Camaro's mission really is, or perhaps what it has to be.

It's always been a 2+2, with the +2 being better off in some generations than in others. This much has to remain, for at least a semblance of utility never mind the difficulty Chevy would have trying to justify a second 2-seat car. Nor can it go all the way to a full 4-seater either (look what's been happening to the sedan market). Camaro in CUV drag . . . just plain wrong.

Any Camaro design needs to suggest that driving is something to be enjoyed, not just an activity you do simply because you have to. It's got to look like it's fun to drive, without being over-styled on the one hand (Civic Type R?) or too plain/utilitarian on the other. And it has to be immediately recognizable as a Camaro, else you might as well find a new name for it while you're at it.

The beltline does have to drop at least a little - I've been saying this since spy shots of the 5th gen started showing up.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

Couldn't resist messing with the Mullet concept a little more and made some adjustments:

-More aggressive mouth
-Toned down the hood bump
-Adjusted the side window to flow with even more glass in back resembling a Gen 2 Camaro

I know the Ferrari influence is obvious but at least it's exotic instead of something that looks like a police car...

I think the transitions at the A-pillar region and behind the driver's position should be more gradual and more "lazy-S-shaped". Should end up more 'graceful', where the sharp elevation discontinuity at the A-pillar and the hard angle at the rear of the door line are "harsh". Once behind about the front edge of the door handle, the beltline could start moving upward without disturbing sight lines or becoming "gunslit-ish".


Norm

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I think the transitions at the A-pillar region and behind the driver's position should be more gradual and more "lazy-S-shaped". Should end up more 'graceful', where the sharp elevation discontinuity at the A-pillar and the hard angle at the rear of the door line are "harsh". Once behind about the front edge of the door handle, the beltline could start moving upward without disturbing sight lines or becoming "gunslit-ish".


Norm

To much rear glass. Like a 65 barracuda. Might be fine for mid engine like the Hemi Underglass Barracuda.

http://www.infinitegarage.com/1965-plymouth-barracuda/


http://carguychronicles.com/2013/02/...ass-wheels-up/

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

You actually want to build a car that looks like 95% of the one it will replace, after the failure of the 6th gen looking too much like the one it replaced. Just give it up.

D'Dogs car would be great refresh. Solves what people binched about. Bigger rear window, narrower A pillars, taller side glass. Sh!t he even through in an LT2 engine.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye

To much rear glass. Like a 65 barracuda. Might be fine for mid engine like the Hemi Underglass Barracuda.

http://www.infinitegarage.com/1965-plymouth-barracuda/


http://carguychronicles.com/2013/02/...ass-wheels-up/

Hadn't gotten that far yet. It wouldn't have to be all glass from beltline to beltline. Some sort of C-pillar would likely be necessary for other reasons anyway.


Norm

[Squatch]

No hatchback, the 3rd Gen was ugly, but the 4th Gen just looked like an overgrown Geo Storm, I hated it when it came out, and still think its ugly...
a redesign is needed, but you can add little things to point to its heritage, like the Gills on the side of the 5th Gen that pointed to the '69 Camaro.
For me visibility is a non issue at all, but I know it is for A LOT of people who test drive it, something is going to have to be done about that I guess, but I cant imagine it not taking from its styling.
As far as power plants; The old pushrod V8 is going away, the new engines will be smaller displacement, coupled with twin Turbos... and dual overhead cams. (think Blackwing line they have coming out now) I'm not against this at all as having turbos allows for some really good aftermarket modifications down the road. I'm also not against having an electric assist (like some hyper cars have). I think this is a fantastic idea as it really adds power for acceleration, and helps fuel economy. Which is what GM is heading toward.
One of my biggest complaints about the 5th-6th Gen camaros is the lack of a grab bar on the door. My wife cant close the door without breaking her nails. the doors are huge, heavy, and the little tiny cup handle is just NOT enough to get a grip on that thing, especially when there is a tailwind that grabs the door when you open it.
I don't have faith the Camaro will stick around, its just not in the forecast for GM and the direction they want to go. Here is to hoping it comes back, I have only driven Camaros my whole life (mostly 1st Gen).

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye

D'Dogs car would be great refresh. Solves what people binched about. Bigger rear window, narrower A pillars, taller side glass. Sh!t he even through in an LT2 engine.

Yes ....thinking of adding a super charger to the LT2 also.