[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

My loaded M6 LT1 with only tires and a Rotofab runs neck and neck and usually wins against auto SSes, GTs, and Dodge 392s. Some of them also have tires and a CAI. I know there are faster hero runs, but consistent 1.9 60s' 12.1s @ 116 (in not great air) is fast enough to be in the game. And this is with Al's builtin Camaro bog and an average driver.

But I guess being bored with an A10 ZL1 makes me an outlier like you.

"Save the Manuals!"

What seems to happen with manuals is most people give up before they can get the most out of the car.

Those are really nice numbers to get consistently, "average" may be a bit humble hahaha.

Fast or not, a MT muscle car just makes me feel at home. My first car was a 4th Gen SS MT. I remember my dad dropping me off to pick it up from the private seller's home, and just leaving me there. "See you at home".

I had never driven a manual car before then, I did surprisingly well, and needless to say I had the time of my life. 25 years later, I can still feel the cold air as I drove all the way home with the windows open. Ever since then I just love the way it makes me feel rowing my own gears in cars like these. I want one in my garage until my last day.

The A10 is about as good as it gets. If that doesn't do it for you, you're def a manual guy like me. Times are changing, and I want to make sure the next one I buy is something to keep long term. I dont want to try as many Camaros as you did in the process though hahaha.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Those are really nice numbers to get consistently, "average" may be a bit humble hahaha.

Fast or not, a MT muscle car just makes me feel at home. My first car was a 4th Gen SS MT. I remember my dad dropping me off to pick it up from the private seller's home, and just leaving me there. "See you at home".

I had never driven a manual car before then, I did surprisingly well, and needless to say I had the time of my life. 25 years later, I can still feel the cold air as I drove all the way home with the windows open. Ever since then I just love the way it makes me feel rowing my own gears in cars like these. I want one in my garage until my last day.

The A10 is about as good as it gets. If that doesn't do it for you, you're def a manual guy like me. Times are changing, and I want to make sure the next one I buy is something to keep long term. I dont want to try as many Camaros as you did in the process though hahaha.

Hell of a first car!!

Still have my 99 SS 20 years later and counting - oh and it's an M6 no question, and yes, they were faster stock for stock than any auto 4th gen unless you were completely inept at driving a manual.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Hell of a first car!!

Still have my 99 SS 20 years later and counting - oh and it's an M6 no question, and yes, they were faster stock for stock than any auto 4th gen unless you were completely inept at driving a manual.

Yeah, I was a REALLY lucky kid. My parents only had me pay them around $250/month too.

Those things were FAST! I remember smoking my older brother in his 5.0 every time. Even hung neck and neck with a guy that had a Corvette in the warehouse I worked at the time.

There was nothing like taking the T-Tops off on a nice day too.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

My loaded M6 LT1 with only tires and a Rotofab runs neck and neck and usually wins against auto SSes, GTs, and Dodge 392s. Some of them also have tires and a CAI. I know there are faster hero runs, but consistent 1.9 60s' 12.1s @ 116 (in not great air) is fast enough to be in the game. And this is with Al's builtin Camaro bog and an average driver.

But I guess being bored with an A10 ZL1 makes me an outlier like you.

"Save the Manuals!"

What seems to happen with manuals is most people give up before they can get the most out of the car.

Notice I only included the Hellcat and ZL1 in my statement not the SS or 392. The boosted high horsepower big brothers are much more difficult to get a close time in the Manual versions.

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Those are really nice numbers to get consistently, "average" may be a bit humble hahaha.

The A10 is about as good as it gets. If that doesn't do it for you, you're def a manual guy like me. Times are changing, and I want to make sure the next one I buy is something to keep long term. I dont want to try as many Camaros as you did in the process though hahaha.

Agreed, Fraxum you are definitely above average haha.

Again, I am semi-bored with my A8, but road course is never boring no matter what. So am am actively looking for the right deal on an M6 ZLE/ZL1/C6Z, but I can't just blow all the equity i have in my car to trade it in. I only bought the auto in the first place because of the deal I got on it.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Notice I only included the Hellcat and ZL1 in my statement not the SS or 392. The boosted high horsepower big brothers are much more difficult to get a close time in the Manual versions.




Agreed, Fraxum you are definitely above average haha.

Again, I am semi-bored with my A8, but road course is never boring no matter what. So am am actively looking for the right deal on an M6 ZLE/ZL1/C6Z, but I can't just blow all the equity i have in my car to trade it in. I only bought the auto in the first place because of the deal I got on it.

That is what made me buy my previous M3. Got a great deal on it, right color etc.....just didn't scratch the right itch.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

That is what made me buy my previous M3. Got a great deal on it, right color etc.....just didn't scratch the right itch.

Mine isn't even the right color

[Evansa22]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Those are really nice numbers to get consistently, "average" may be a bit humble hahaha.

Fast or not, a MT muscle car just makes me feel at home. My first car was a 4th Gen SS MT. I remember my dad dropping me off to pick it up from the private seller's home, and just leaving me there. "See you at home".

I had never driven a manual car before then, I did surprisingly well, and needless to say I had the time of my life. 25 years later, I can still feel the cold air as I drove all the way home with the windows open. Ever since then I just love the way it makes me feel rowing my own gears in cars like these. I want one in my garage until my last day.

The A10 is about as good as it gets. If that doesn't do it for you, you're def a manual guy like me. Times are changing, and I want to make sure the next one I buy is something to keep long term. I dont want to try as many Camaros as you did in the process though hahaha.

Great call! For me and I'm sure most manual lovers, it's about the driving experience, not necessarily who's fastest. Especially when you're out having fun on some back roads, who you racing? Auto vs manual to me is more lap times vs fun. Not for everyone, but when you know you love driving a manual there's no substitute. One reason I love this community, lots of MT guys.

As in your case as well as mine, it can even take you back instantly to memories from the past. To me that's much more valuable than beating another car by .7 seconds.

If you were chasing lap times or racing, AT makes sense.
However that doesnt mean driver A beats driver B purely on transmission choice (if that's what you're into). Many variables that can go into that equation, and to me getting it right in an MT is so much sweeter. Enhancing the driving experience. Also my wife drives a slightly tuned f80 dct m3, so I do have some reference between the two. I know it's no zl1 a10 vs m6 but its quick in its own right.

All sentiments I see here, just thought I'd throw in my .02

[L78toLT1]

Just saw my first GT500 in the wild yesterday, it was red with white rally stripes, pretty sharp car. He was going south, the wife and I were headed north. When I pointed the gt500 out to the wife, she inquired "can we outrun that guy?" I really couldn't give her a definitive answer. I'm m6, so on the strip, he would hand me my hat I'm sure, but I'm thinking from a highway speed, say 60 mph roll, it should be a race. I'm at around 730whp, car trapped 130 - 133mph on street tires at the CamaroFest. Times sucked, I believe 11.3x was my best due to my consistent 2.2 - 2.3 60' times. Anyway, what's the consensus on my roll-on chances vs. A GT500?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by L78toLT1

Just saw my first GT500 in the wild yesterday, it was red with white rally stripes, pretty sharp car. He was going south, the wife and I were headed north. When I pointed the gt500 out to the wife, she inquired "can we outrun that guy?" I really couldn't give her a definitive answer. I'm m6, so on the strip, he would hand me my hat I'm sure, but I'm thinking from a highway speed, say 60 mph roll, it should be a race. I'm at around 730whp, car trapped 130 - 133mph on street tires at the CamaroFest. Times sucked, I believe 11.3x was my best due to my consistent 2.2 - 2.3 60' times. Anyway, what's the consensus on my roll-on chances vs. A GT500?

At 730 to the wheels thru the M6 trans I think you'll put up a decent fight but will ultimately get bested. Ford severely underrated them. They seem to all be putting out 700 to 705 RWHP bone stock. You'd probably need closer to 900 to beat a stock one just due to the trans. If you were 730 thru an A10 then you'd dust one pretty nicely for sure.

My HC is at 766 RWHP and I doubt I can beat one but I still wanna give it a go. And I'd like to run them once I'm in the 1000 club. My A10 ZL1 shouldn't have a problem with any of them soon unless they're highly modded. But I'll be cammed, blower swap, ported heads, etc at that point

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by L78toLT1

Just saw my first GT500 in the wild yesterday, it was red with white rally stripes, pretty sharp car. He was going south, the wife and I were headed north. When I pointed the gt500 out to the wife, she inquired "can we outrun that guy?" I really couldn't give her a definitive answer. I'm m6, so on the strip, he would hand me my hat I'm sure, but I'm thinking from a highway speed, say 60 mph roll, it should be a race. I'm at around 730whp, car trapped 130 - 133mph on street tires at the CamaroFest. Times sucked, I believe 11.3x was my best due to my consistent 2.2 - 2.3 60' times. Anyway, what's the consensus on my roll-on chances vs. A GT500?

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

At 730 to the wheels thru the M6 trans I think you'll put up a decent fight but will ultimately get bested. Ford severely underrated them. They seem to all be putting out 700 to 705 RWHP bone stock. You'd probably need closer to 900 to beat a stock one just due to the trans. If you were 730 thru an A10 then you'd dust one pretty nicely for sure.

My HC is at 766 RWHP and I doubt I can beat one but I still wanna give it a go. And I'd like to run them once I'm in the 1000 club. My A10 ZL1 shouldn't have a problem with any of them soon unless they're highly modded. But I'll be cammed, blower swap, ported heads, etc at that point

I’m gonna go the other way on this. If you’re getting 730 whp in a lighter car with at least decent traction you should be able to take a 705 whp heavier car that is more front heavy in a roll race. Transmission should only be an issue if you blow a shift. Both of you should be able to take a stock GT500 in a 60 roll.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I’m gonna go the other way on this. If you’re getting 730 whp in a lighter car with at least decent traction you should be able to take a 705 whp heavier car that is more front heavy in a roll race. Transmission should only be an issue if you blow a shift. Both of you should be able to take a stock GT500 in a 60 roll.

Well you gotta remember the HC is about 200 pounds heavier and just as front heavy. But it certainly would be an interesting race. Here are some snippets I considered with my comment.

The original HC overpowered the ZL1 by as much as 130 RWHP stock to stock. Basically, ZL1s were dyno-ing 550-ish while HCs were dyno-ing as much as 680-ish. However in a roll race the ZL1 stuck with the HC up until about 120+ MPH where the HC typically starts to pull away...this is trans to trans (A10 to A8 and M6 to M6). So we know the ZL1 can hang with the heavier cars with much more power up to a certain point when equipped with the same trans type.

When M6 ZL1s have raced the heavier and more power auto equipped HCs, in the videos I have seen they would stick with them up until the point where they shift. At that point you'd see the auto equipped cars jut forward a bit at each shift and then carry that momentum and increase the lead. So even when nailing the shifts they tend to lag a bit...more so than they A10s. And again, at 120+ the HC would start to pull away.

So this is interesting because the M6 ZL1 would have more power and less weight to offset the trans deficit. In this case, 730 RWHP/200 pounds advantage/M6 vs 705-ish (guess-timated) RWHP/200 pounds disadvantage/7 sp DCT.

So if the ZL1 has overcome cars with much more HP due to the weight advantage and the A10, then if you neutralize the HP deficit the ZL1 with the same type of trans will win. The biggest question is if it can do it with the M6 trans. Not only being a manual but also 1 less gear. Final drive ratio is the same in both cars. ZL1 is more balanced and lower to the ground...and built better. I think it would be a good race. And on second thought, maybe the ZL1 might win with 730 RWHP.

I mean...after 180 MPH the ZL1 will straight up walk away tho

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by L78toLT1

Just saw my first GT500 in the wild yesterday, it was red with white rally stripes, pretty sharp car. He was going south, the wife and I were headed north. When I pointed the gt500 out to the wife, she inquired "can we outrun that guy?" I really couldn't give her a definitive answer. I'm m6, so on the strip, he would hand me my hat I'm sure, but I'm thinking from a highway speed, say 60 mph roll, it should be a race. I'm at around 730whp, car trapped 130 - 133mph on street tires at the CamaroFest. Times sucked, I believe 11.3x was my best due to my consistent 2.2 - 2.3 60' times. Anyway, what's the consensus on my roll-on chances vs. A GT500?

Make sure you can no lift shift and start from the lowest MPH that you can hook from. If you cannot perform no lift shifts, the GT500 will pull from you on each of your shifts.

[L78toLT1]

After doing a little research, I'm convinced this would be a drivers race. Car and Driver ran 11.4 / 132. I trapped basically the same in what had to be worse conditions. My only 1/4 mile passes in this car were at Camarofest X in what felt like 100 degree heat. If I start at 60 - 70 in 3rd gear, I will probably hook. No lift shift to 4th and I'm thinking I may pull him a bit until the top of 4th. With the big jump from 4th to 5th in the SS m6, if we don't run out of road, he may catch me. Either way, it should be close

[BlaqWhole]

So Dodge builds a Hellcat powered SRT Durango and gives it to one of their guys to test it before it gets released...long story short, dude takes it home, leaves it in the driveway, shit gets stolen. Now I think this is all just a publicity stunt which I dislike. Get some free advertisement and all. Because who is stupid enough to take a pre-production vehicle costing as much as this thing most assuredly costs and just leaves it in a driveway with no security measures in place? No cameras. No tracking devices. Nothing. And in a high crime area most notable for vehicles being stolen. So either they gave it to the dullest employee they have or this is a publicity stunt.