[MakCamaro]

With all due respect to everyone in this thread and with no intention to bash on anyone (and I am saying this because this thread got derailed), whether we like it or not the Ring is the standard by which this kind of cars are measured. BlaqWhole said many times what we all clearly understand by the fact that Ford is reluctant to take the GT500 at the Ring and post their times: that the GT500 is not able to compete with the ZL1 and other cars on that level. Common sense says that Ford don't post their times because, if they did, this would hurt their sales and the image of the GT500. BlaqWhole also respectfully said many times that the ZL1 is the overall better car in every category except a roll race above 60mph.

Although I probably don't have the experience that most of you guys have, for my own reasons I passed on the opportunity to buy a slightly used GT500 and I went for the ZL1 instead. I certainly do not regret that because, like many others in this forum, I absolutely love the car, its looks, the overall quality and the way it handles. I still wonder why Chevrolet sells this car at such a hefty discount!

Let's try to take this thread back into topic. Like many others I have learnt a lot through my interaction with several members of the Camaro6 forum, many times by simply going through threads and reading comments while drinking my morning coffee. So let's keep the discussion to a level worthy of the Camaro6 community.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by MakCamaro

With all due respect to everyone in this thread and with no intention to bash on anyone (and I am saying this because this thread got derailed), whether we like it or not the Ring is the standard by which this kind of cars are measured. BlaqWhole said many times what we all clearly understand by the fact that Ford is reluctant to take the GT500 at the Ring and post their times: that the GT500 is not able to compete with the ZL1 and other cars on that level. Common sense says that Ford don't post their times because, if they did, this would hurt their sales and the image of the GT500. BlaqWhole also respectfully said many times that the ZL1 is the overall better car in every category except a roll race above 60mph.

Although I probably don't have the experience that most of you guys have, for my own reasons I passed on the opportunity to buy a slightly used GT500 and I went for the ZL1 instead. I certainly do not regret that because, like many others in this forum, I absolutely love the car, its looks, the overall quality and the way it handles. I still wonder why Chevrolet sells this car at such a hefty discount!

Let's try to take this thread back into topic. Like many others I have learnt a lot through my interaction with several members of the Camaro6 forum, many times by simply going through threads and reading comments while drinking my morning coffee. So let's keep the discussion to a level worthy of the Camaro6 community.

While I agree with him and others that the ‘Ring times are the most unreliable and irrelevant numbers in the auto world……..it is the standard unfortunately and very telling that Ford won’t bring their cars there. I’m sure Ford and I definitely know owners of GT500s (especially CFTPs) would very much disagree that they aren’t able to compete with ZL1s (1LEs) on road courses etc. This is where I think price does matter as they damn will better be able to for what they ask and are getting for them. Especially the CFTP versions.

[clg82]

Originally Posted by minn19

While I agree with him and others that the ‘Ring times are the most unreliable and irrelevant numbers in the auto world……..it is the standard unfortunately and very telling that Ford won’t bring their cars there. I’m sure Ford and I definitely know owners of GT500s (especially CFTPs) would very much disagree that they aren’t able to compete with ZL1s (1LEs) on road courses etc. This is where I think price does matter as they damn will better be able to for what they ask and are getting for them. Especially the CFTP versions.

But their not getting their moneys worth plain and simple.....sit in one, it's outdated interior doesn't scream 6 figures too me, drive one, it feels heavy, doesn't feel as spirited, the chassis is out of sync with the rest of the car, aside from the DCT it doesn't scream superior and worth 6 figures too me, and don't tell me (specifically blaq) at MSRP a couple of years ago they aren't going for over 6 figures add in a CFTP and tax title and license and their well over it....

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by clg82

But their not getting their moneys worth plain and simple.....sit in one, it's outdated interior doesn't scream 6 figures too me, drive one, it feels heavy, doesn't feel as spirited, the chassis is out of sync with the rest of the car, aside from the DCT it doesn't scream superior and worth 6 figures too me, and don't tell me (specifically blaq) at MSRP a couple of years ago they aren't going for over 6 figures add in a CFTP and tax title and license and their well over it....

The ZL1 is such a good performance bargain that it makes the GT500 seem like it isn't good performance value, esp when factoring in ADMs. My ZL1 under msrp was $25k less than the msrp+ADM requested by a local Ford dealership for their base GT500 w/ tech. package, vinyl stripes, and Recaros.

I think where we disagree, is that aside from the ZL1 (albeit at a lower price point), there's nothing in the same msrp price range that can beat a GT500's overall performance, factoring in acceleration, grip, handling, etc.

C8 Z51 is close for similar price, but lacks the top end pull of the GT500. And is a different car class (mid-engined 2-seater sports car).

Come to think of it, I thought of one car that is similar in performance and price: the CT5V Blackwing just about matches a base GT500 in performance also (only slightly slower 1/4 mile trap speeds), for a similar but still higher price (msrp to msrp).

Notice they are all GM products...because GM is king of performance value.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by clg82

But their not getting their moneys worth plain and simple.....sit in one, it's outdated interior doesn't scream 6 figures too me, drive one, it feels heavy, doesn't feel as spirited, the chassis is out of sync with the rest of the car, aside from the DCT it doesn't scream superior and worth 6 figures too me, and don't tell me (specifically blaq) at MSRP a couple of years ago they aren't going for over 6 figures add in a CFTP and tax title and license and their well over it....

As for the interior,
I prefer the GT500 interior a lot more. Looks better, cooler looking more modern gauges, way easier to see out of and not cramped feeling. The interior fit and finish might me be slightly better in the ZL1 but I cant tell. To me the camaro interior is as outdate as the mustangs.
But see, this is MY OPINION and you have your opinion, which is the complete opposite of mine.
As mentioned before, people dont typically buy cars like ZL1's, Hellcats, and GT500's for their luxurious interiors, they buy them for the powertrain and performance. You want nice with performance, go buy a Mercedes, bimmer, Porsche, Audi...
Interior and which car is "better" is very subjective and not facts!

Anyway, hard to argue the ZL1 isn't the better value, especially considering the crazy GT500 ADM many are paying. But still TO ME my GT500 provides the more fun, visceral, and thrilling to drive experience than my ZL1 ever did and that's all that matters, as it's my money.
You sound like a mustang/GT500 hater to me no matter how good it is. That is your opinion and that's fine. I can appreciate cars from any make and not brand biased in any way.
I do agree it's dumb to spend $100k+ on this car, though I did buy mine with every option for $85k, again, maybe I was lucky and today its worth more and will continue to hold value being a limited run!
I have owned my GT500 over a year now and love it more now than ever. I have no plans on selling it even though its a great time to sell.
I had my ZL1 for about 5 months. Most of that time it sat in my garage, as I didn't enjoy driving or even sitting in it. I sold it and didn't look back, never missing it.
No offense to camaro/ZL1 owners. It is a great car, performs well, looks great and awesome value but it just didn't do anything for me personally.

[MakCamaro]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

I had my ZL1 for about 5 months. Most of that time it sat in my garage, as I didn't enjoy driving or even sitting in it. I sold it and didn't look back, never missing it.

I don't think that clg82 is a mustang/GT500 hater. This is a Camaro forum and the majority of the members here, including me, love their Camaros and they own one because they feel it is a better car overall and more unique compared to the mustang. Otherwise they would have bought a mustang and they would be in the m6g forum. I hate to get into arguments, so please don't take me wrong, but judging by your comments in your signature and your reply to clg82 quoted above, you don't like Camaros and you are a mustang guy. All good, to each his own. But don't try to convince the Camaro community here that the GT500 is better than the ZL1, because it's not. Personally, I love sitting in my Camaro more than I loved sitting in my mustang and I've driven and enjoyed both my SS and my current ZL1 much more than I've ever driven and enjoyed the mustang. That's why I own a Camaro and that's why I am in this forum instead of the m6g one.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by MakCamaro

I don't think that clg82 is a mustang/GT500 hater. This is a Camaro forum and the majority of the members here, including me, love their Camaros and they own one because they feel it is a better car overall and more unique compared to the mustang. Otherwise they would have bought a mustang and they would be in the m6g forum. I hate to get into arguments, so please don't take me wrong, but judging by your comments in your signature and your reply to clg82 quoted above, you don't like Camaros and you are a mustang guy. All good, to each his own. But don't try to convince the Camaro community here that the GT500 is better than the ZL1, because it's not. Personally, I love sitting in my Camaro more than I loved sitting in my mustang and I've driven and enjoyed both my SS and my current ZL1 much more than I've ever driven and enjoyed the mustang.

Well I stressed many times everything I'm saying IS MY OPINION.
I am trying to convince anyone of anything!
BTW, I have a pretty large history with owning and enjoying Camaros and why I am still on this forum.
Past camaros, not all mentioned in my signature (Ive owned more camaro and GM products than Ford and mustangs):

1987 Camaro IROCZ M5
1994 Camaro Z28 M6
2012 Camaro SS A6 (L99)
2016 Camaro SS A8
2017 Camaro 2SS M6
2019 ZL1 A10

I really love the current ZL1 and glad it exists. It looks and performs excellent and has a ton of potential; it just wasn't for me to own as a weekend toy at this point in my life!
I fully understand this is a Camaro forum, but this is a thread about the ZL1, GT500, Hellcat and find some of the GT500 comments are misinformed, and adding my replies may have some value for some. A lot of people talk bad about the GT500 and never driven or experienced it or maybe they drove one for a few min, which isn't enough to really get the car.
Ive owned and experienced all 3 (Hellcat, Zl1 and GT500). I have never driven or sat in the C8 and why Ive never commented about it.

[NW-99SS]

L99BEN - your 1994 Z28 was an M6, not an M5 unless it was a V6 and not a Z28.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

L99BEN - your 1994 Z28 was an M6, not an M5 unless it was a V6 and not a Z28.

Yes M6 good catch... was typing quick/typo obviously
Definitely was a Z28 and loved it at the time!

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

Yes M6 good catch... was typing quick/typo obviously
Definitely was a Z28 and loved it at the time!

All good, love my fourth gens

[ST1LE]

My first car was a black '94 M6 Z28. Ruined me for life, now nothing but a V8 manual will do.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

My first car was a black '94 M6 Z28. Ruined me for life, now nothing but a V8 manual will do.

Sorry, not sorry for the thread hijack, lol!

Great first car! The first car I bought was a 92 Cavalier Z24, right when a good friend bought a high mileage 96 Z28 M6. Needless to say, within a year I traded the Z24 for my 99 SS M6 I still have. Can't bring myself to ever sell it.

They do ruin you, the analogue driving feeling is tough to replicate by any other car. A well setup 4th gen is an impressive machine. Of course, this requires addressing all the silly factory flaws.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Sorry, not sorry for the thread hijack, lol!

Great first car! The first car I bought was a 92 Cavalier Z24, right when a good friend bought a high mileage 96 Z28 M6. Needless to say, within a year I traded the Z24 for my 99 SS M6 I still have. Can't bring myself to ever sell it.

They do ruin you, the analogue driving feeling is tough to replicate by any other car. A well setup 4th gen is an impressive machine. Of course, this requires addressing all the silly factory flaws.

I'd definitely keep the 99 SS if I were you and I'm with you on the analogue feeling most newer cars dont have.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

I'd definitely keep the 99 SS if I were you and I'm with you on the analogue feeling most newer cars dont have.

I'm 22 years into owning it - and hopefully it just stays in the family after I'm gone