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Old 01-29-2022, 11:06 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
Sorry you’ve missed my years of posts on this.

For the Gen6, GM did NOT clinic the car in a traditional sense.

They went to a group I believe they called The Camaro Faithful and asked them what they wanted. The answer for that small group of people was simply “MORE”. More of what the Gen5 was. And that’s what we got.

If they had asked Mustang customers or other coupe buyers maybe (likely) they would have got a different answer.

The post you are commenting on is simply GM has the data on why this car isn’t selling and it’s likely it’s because it’s more Gen5 but not more great coupe.
So, they got hardly any data, built it, then got more data why it doesn't sale, thru their hands in the air and gave up?

In contrast, Dodge started in 3rd and has come up with unique ideas to push the losing brand to 1st and still pushes further.

It's a great coupe. Maybe, just maybe, it went over into "corvette territory" a little too much (the hood, seating and cabin view constantly reminds me of 70's stingray). But it is an amazing car. That's why I bought one. I'd probably be happy with a Dodge too though. I have driven Hellcat, RT's and Scat Pack wide bodies. They all do what I need/want them to do.

Back to the issue, there are plenty of ways to promote the car and increase sales. Just ask Dodge...
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Old 01-29-2022, 12:16 PM   #296
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The problem with marketing the Camaro is most car enthusiasts have the driving skill of a wet paper bag, but it takes no skill to just mash the right pedal and hold it to the floor. Dodge's advantage is they get to market to the lowest common denominator and GM built a track car that only a very small group of people have the skill level to appreciate.
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Old 01-29-2022, 04:58 PM   #297
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So, what you're saying is gm (not GM) got a butt load of data and intentionally made a car that no one wanted, then got some more data and figured out why no one wanted it, but decided to do absolutely nothing about it and instead lose money?

Meanwhile, Dodge, who hasn't really changed their models since 2009, somehow went from a third-place car to first place in sales out of sheer luck....

Perhaps gm (not GM) should buy hire a leprechaun and get a rabbit's foot instead of investing in all the data so they can regain sales.

A lot of people see car sales, and think that GM is doing bad because they are 3rd, 2nd, 4th, etc., etc. It's like GM trucks. Everyone thinks that Fords are the best selling, and sure on paper they are until you add GMC sales to Silverado sales, and GM sells more or is right there. Meanwhile, Ford deeply discounts the F150s so that they can have bragging rights. GM has people that specifically study the market and tailor their strategy for maximum profits, not "best selling". About the one nameplate that GM is ok with going almost all in on is the Corvette (and to some extent the high end Caddies), but that's because the Corvette is a halo car. I mean they built a flat plane crank V8 for the Z06 which will be around at best for 3 years, which tells me that they can perform when they want to.
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Old 01-29-2022, 07:40 PM   #298
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A lot of people see car sales, and think that GM is doing bad because they are 3rd, 2nd, 4th, etc., etc. It's like GM trucks. Everyone thinks that Fords are the best selling, and sure on paper they are until you add GMC sales to Silverado sales, and GM sells more or is right there. Meanwhile, Ford deeply discounts the F150s so that they can have bragging rights. GM has people that specifically study the market and tailor their strategy for maximum profits, not "best selling". About the one nameplate that GM is ok with going almost all in on is the Corvette (and to some extent the high end Caddies), but that's because the Corvette is a halo car. I mean they built a flat plane crank V8 for the Z06 which will be around at best for 3 years, which tells me that they can perform when they want to.
Did I miss something? The C7 Z06 debuted in 2015 and lasted until 2019. If anything, since the C8 launched during COVID I would expect it to last several more model years than the C7 plus with rumors of the C9 being electric I could see GM stretching it a few more years on top of that to get the EV tech sorted.
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Old 01-29-2022, 08:15 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by 95 imp View Post
So, they got hardly any data, built it, then got more data why it doesn't sale, thru their hands in the air and gave up?

In contrast, Dodge started in 3rd and has come up with unique ideas to push the losing brand to 1st and still pushes further.

It's a great coupe. Maybe, just maybe, it went over into "corvette territory" a little too much (the hood, seating and cabin view constantly reminds me of 70's stingray). But it is an amazing car. That's why I bought one. I'd probably be happy with a Dodge too though. I have driven Hellcat, RT's and Scat Pack wide bodies. They all do what I need/want them to do.

Back to the issue, there are plenty of ways to promote the car and increase sales. Just ask Dodge...
What GM and everyone on this website really knows if they let their defenses down is the Camaro was designed and engineered for a very specific but unfortunately as it turns out, limited customer base. There is nothing Dodge has done (not a single high volume model) has done that CHEVROLET could copy. Sorry but that’s just how it is.
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Old 01-29-2022, 08:54 PM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
Sorry you’ve missed my years of posts on this.

For the Gen6, GM did NOT clinic the car in a traditional sense.

They went to a group I believe they called The Camaro Faithful and asked them what they wanted. The answer for that small group of people was simply “MORE”. More of what the Gen5 was. And that’s what we got.

If they had asked Mustang customers or other coupe buyers maybe (likely) they would have got a different answer.

The post you are commenting on is simply GM has the data on why this car isn’t selling and it’s likely it’s because it’s more Gen5 but not more great coupe.
You know this as fact how?
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Old 01-29-2022, 09:23 PM   #301
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You know this as fact how?
He worked for GM back in the day and has (had?) access to insider information.
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Old 01-29-2022, 11:49 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by arpad_m View Post
He worked for GM back in the day and has (had?) access to insider information.
I’d like to hear it from him.

He worked for GM long before the Alpha Camaro. Mr. Balsa Wood floor himself drove Fbodfather’s Gen5 CTF test car. IIRC, he wasn’t with GM then.

This always seemed like a bit of a tall tale from him. GM, the calculating machine, with processes and data, saying WTF …let’s just talk to a few guys before spending a billion.

I’d bet the real story goes …the 2006 gen5 show car got lots of love (slammed roof and all) so they turned it into a successful production vehicle from 2010-2015. They figured Mustang and 911 successfully branded a shape/look so they’d do the same by evolving the look of gen5 into gen6…..

https://www.motortrend.com/news/06ca...concept-photos
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Old 01-30-2022, 01:04 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by zxspeedspec View Post
Did I miss something? The C7 Z06 debuted in 2015 and lasted until 2019. If anything, since the C8 launched during COVID I would expect it to last several more model years than the C7 plus with rumors of the C9 being electric I could see GM stretching it a few more years on top of that to get the EV tech sorted.

The new version of the Z06. The new flat plane crank is something that might not be in production for that long given how fast the EV landscape is changing. https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...py-shots-video Who knows, maybe the flat plane crank will be turned into a hybrid, the instant torque of a small electric motor with the high NA horsepower of the new V8 would be interesting to see. Either way, for GM to have created the new Z06's flat plane crank V8, it shows that they aren't as dispassionate about cars as some in here have suggested.
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Old 01-30-2022, 02:35 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
What GM and everyone on this website really knows if they let their defenses down is the Camaro was designed and engineered for a very specific but unfortunately as it turns out, limited customer base.
There is nothing Dodge has done (not a single high volume model) has done that CHEVROLET could copy. Sorry but that’s just how it is.

I reckon not.
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Old 01-30-2022, 06:31 AM   #305
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You know there is a dodge forum? You guys can go talk about car sales and all the dodges we see on the road every day. I’m sure they have a section for Hellcats that have been in rap videos too.
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Old 01-30-2022, 06:50 AM   #306
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You know there is a dodge forum? You guys can go talk about car sales and all the dodges we see on the road every day. I’m sure they have a section for Hellcats that have been in rap videos too.
Be carefull you are stepping on a lot of Dodge toes here. These people need to talk about Dodges for when their engines blow up.
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Old 01-30-2022, 07:40 AM   #307
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Be carefull you are stepping on a lot of Dodge toes here. These people need to talk about Dodges for when their engines blow up.
You don't wanna go there. From lousy oily pumps and lifter failures to valve springs letting go on new motors neither side is a model for great craftsmanship or durability.
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Old 01-30-2022, 08:00 AM   #308
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You don't wanna go there. From lousy oily pumps and lifter failures to valve springs letting go on new motors neither side is a model for great craftsmanship or durability.
Why not talk about why you bought a Camaro and kept it then. If people are unhappy with their Camaro sell it, trade it or move on.
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