[Sith]

Anyone used this MHI Upgrade Turbo for the LTG? It it much larger than stock and being an MHI turbo quality should be great. I attached a Spec sheet pdf.

https://www.mitsubishi-turbo.com/pro...et-camaro-ltg/

[95TA - The Beast]

Honestly, there was talk about this back in 2020 and everyone thought that the 3d-printed mockups were going to be it.

But, now that it is in a catalog with a part number, I sent an inquiry off to a couple of places that deal with Mitsubishi turbos and asked about pricing and availability.

I will let everyone know what I find out, when I find it out.

[cooper1965]

95TA - The Beast- Message Robert Young on the FB group. He is running one right now, and sells them. Super knowledgeable guy, big time racer.

[95TA - The Beast]

cooper1965, Which FB group in particular?

[cooper1965]

95TA - The Beast-The LTG Project..



Tell him I sent ya

[Start The Machine]

Wow, this actually came out. I guess I've been living under a rock. Can someone please explain to me what the actual size of the turbine and compressor are?

[hotw50aeltg]

Did you ever get the specs for the compressor and turbine wheels inducer and exducer sizes. Also do know the rpo #s for the HD Cooling Package components.

hotw50aeltg

[95TA - The Beast]

Originally Posted by Start The Machine

Wow, this actually came out. I guess I've been living under a rock. Can someone please explain to me what the actual size of the turbine and compressor are?

All of the technical info is on the page that was referenced in the first post: https://www.mitsubishi-turbo.com/pro...et-camaro-ltg/


And you can buy them here: https://forcedperformance.shop/colle...i-camaro-turbo

The compressor wheel:

55.1mm Inducer
75mm Exducer
Billet KX Material

The turbine wheel:

61.5mm Inducer
54mm Exducer
713C Material

Housing:

12 cm2 Area
42mm WG Diameter
DS5 Material

"There is nothing below 2500rpm and by 3500rpm it takes off" <- per Robert Young. So an auto with a stall converter or manual "would be best". Looks to be well suited for use with Stage 3 cams as far as to where it pushes the power band.

[Start The Machine]

Thanks Beast. Sorry, I just noticed the link to the specs. So basically this is just another "hybrid" turbo offering? 61mm w/9 blade. Looks like what I have now from Trifecta/Mach5 and what Vermont, TPC, Turbo Bay, ZZP ect.. offer already. Am I missing something here with this MHI offering? Also, that dyno sheet only hitting 335TQ... yikes! Stay away from that tuner.

[95TA - The Beast]

Well, a couple of things...

It is NOT a hybrid. It is a completely new set of castings specifically for a larger exhaust housing (twin scroll design) as well as compressor housing.

Everything else is "beefed up" and purpose-built for the LTG. It is a true bolt-on upgrade from the same people that make the stock turbo. I would imagine the longevity of this unit to be on par with the stock unit which should basically far exceed anything else, including rebuilt stock hybrids (if only from larger bearings).

Lastly, the guy that put his dyno sheet on that site should pull it. He is NOT representing that product properly. It will support 540hp and as such it shouldn't be represented by a "paltry" 330hp/335tq pull. I think they want to sell them so they are trying to show that you *can* bolt it on a stock LTG... The kicker is if you do that you have a ton of lag and your powerband is crap because you have to limit the output all over to keep the engine together, not to mention the lack of fuel to support higher output, since it will run past the limits of the stock fuel system and cams.

So, yeah, it is more "on-par" with a Z57 offering from ZZP than anything else. None of the hybrids have an exhaust wheel anywhere near that size. Even the ZZP Z57 is barely larger with a 5663 turbine where-as the MHI "upgrade" has a 5462 turbine. Basically the MHI "upgrade" is a big-ass turbo. The hybrids are a mixed bag of trade-offs, but the fact is the hybrids will ALL generate more heat than any of the "bigger housing" turbos. Most of that is nullified with a larger intercooler, but there are limits to everything.

[Start The Machine]

This is exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks again for all of the info and clarification on this. This has to be the largest turbo you can get that will bolt to the stock manifold right?

[95TA - The Beast]

Originally Posted by Start The Machine

This is exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks again for all of the info and clarification on this. This has to be the largest turbo you can get that will bolt to the stock manifold right?

Oh yeah, honestly it is larger than the Z57/ZFR-7163 as well as anything else.

I do believe they were able to gain a bit of lower rpm spin out of the turbo by utilizing a twin-scroll. About the only info we don't have is what A/R it would effectively be. I can only imagine it is at least between a .80-.90 A/R.

I do believe that ZZP really messed up with only a single-scroll exhaust housing and a .85 A/R. I think a twin-scroll .64 A/R option on the ZFR-6758 would have allowed it to spin up much faster. For those of us not looking for just upper-end it would have been a MAJOR win. I understand they had a cost associated with engineering and production and all, but a lower A/R twin-scroll housing would have allowed the 6758 to spin a lot more like a stock turbo down low.

Honestly, even though this might piss off a lot of people, but, quite frankly I think the fact that so much of the LTG is picked up as a progression, or expansion, of the Cobalt world is part of the problem. There just seems to be a MASSIVE lack of engineering and technical in-depth knowledge and thus there is a view that it is not needed here on the LTG platform either. More like there is a "kid racer" attitude towards this stuff, which, quite frankly, I cannot stand in the least. I come from a high-HP and very technologically-centered background where accurate specifications mean everything and "industrial quality" builds are expected. ZZP NEEDS to start giving all the information, since it seems more and more like they are just a bunch of "kid racers" trying their best. The prices of a LOT of what they sell are on the premium end, and lets be honest, anything < 600hp is mid-power level in comparison to V6s, V8s and everything else out there that is making big power, thus the majority of products are mid-power level products.

Again, not trying to bag on anyone, but in comparison to the "big-hp" stuff, this stuff is more suited for great handling platforms, which is EXACTLY what you want out of a street car. It is VERY hard to reduce weight and keep all the good stuff to make a high-hp heavy car handle. It can be done, but takes a lot of effort and money to do it right. Here we have an extremely lightweight platform that can perform great, the whole point of it is not trying to max out HP. It is about creating balance and understanding why limits are the way they are. If you want big-hp, do it with a V8, it is MUCH easier.

I still have not seen anyone putting together combinations that are "solid" in regards to staying together, adequate fueling, working with a standard set of parts and knowing "this recipe equals this performance". I mean it almost seems like everyone is still trying to best everyone else, or that things are so fragile that no solid "recipe" can be derived. No wonder so many people bail out of the platform (in all makes/models that is) because of the lack of shared knowledge. And, trust me, I am not talking the tuning side, as that is a whole other can of worms. I am just talking "hard parts" and what does and what does not work and at what point you need whatever else.

At this point I have had three or four people tell me straight up the ZFR-6758 doesn't spool as well as the Z54 does. That is INSANITY, since the ZFR-6758 being a ceramic ball-bearing cartridge, a light alloy set of wheels and should DEFINITELY spool faster. I have heard that the Z54 spools a solid 500rpm sooner than the ZFR-6758. And these are people that have run Z54/Z57/ZFR-6758 and even ZFR-7163 turbos. For some reason the ZFR-7163 seems to spool at least as quick if not quicker than the 6758 which makes no sense at all. I mean for this to be true the exhaust housing for the ZFR-6758 has to be really mismatched. And if not, then why have 3-4 different people all said the EXACT same thing.

For my build I have on hand a ZFR-6758, brand new, as well as a Hybrid 20g that supports 450whp+ and I will be able to do back-to-back comparisons of them. My goal is low lag, instant boost and torque all over with a reasonable ceiling of 400hp/400tq at the wheels. I will be running the same BOV (Turbosmart "plumbback" design) and the same wastegate actuator (again a Turbosmart IWG75) with all the other parts remaining the same. Hell, I will even have a ZZP Big Wheel turbo to throw into the mix. Considering swapping turbos is pretty damn easy, it shouldn't take more than a couple hours since all the nuts/studs will come out easy.

Oh, I also will be running my ZFR-6758 with the proper cooling orientation. ZZP puts both the inlet/outlet on the same side which is outlined as "WRONG" in the Borg Warner installation specs. Per BW you need to "crossflow" the coolant across the turbo by having the inlet at the bottom on one side and the outlet at the top on the OPPOSITE side. The stock turbo (and the MHI upgrade as well as all the hybrids that rebuild the stock turbo) has a baffle blocking the "short-circuit" between the lower inlet and the upper outlet, which forces coolant to flow completely around the turbo core to exit out the top. The ZZP setup uses a EFR "supercore" and I have verified mine does not have a baffle blocking the inlet to outlet to force coolant around the core, thus coolant can go in and immediately go up and out with little contact with the core. Now, I am sure this is explained by the fact that liquid cooling of the core is "optional" in the EFR series that ANY cooling is "better than none and none is all that is required", but, TO ME that is not the same as a turbo that has proper coolant flow across the core and allows proper cooling for longer life. And since everyone knows that a ball bearing turbo is usually regarded has having a "lower lifespan" than a journal bearing turbo, anything that can be done to increase the health and longevity of my investment is worth doing. Now, does that mean the cooling feed connection that is between the turbo and engine is easy to get at, hell no! Does it also mean that you can run it without doing other modifications, again, no. I had to bend the oil feed line, cut and resection the oiriginal coolant feed line as well as utilizing Oetiker clamps and I even considered buying a set of Parker tubing flare tools, but in consult with a fellow engineer since there is no where for the tubing to move to it wasn't needed.

I will follow up with some pics of the modifications needed as they sit on my setup.

[95TA - The Beast]

Pics:



















If, for some reason the pics above don't work (they aren't showing for me while posting this, which is strange since I can drop the link manually and it comes up), here are the direct links:

http://www.darklogic.net/20211223_183235.jpg

http://www.darklogic.net/20211223_184329.jpg

http://www.darklogic.net/20211227_142657.jpg

http://www.darklogic.net/20211227_142712.jpg

http://www.darklogic.net/20211227_143932.jpg

http://www.darklogic.net/20211227_143946.jpg

http://www.darklogic.net/20211227_143956.jpg

http://www.darklogic.net/20211227_144032.jpg

http://www.darklogic.net/20211227_144124.jpg

[95TA - The Beast]

Also, forgot to add that the EFR-7163 core, because it is aluminum, REQUIRES liquid cooling.

The big concern there is, that unless BW makes a custom aluminum center section that blocks off the coolant from "short-circuiting" than that turbo unit, ESPECIALLY, does not have the proper cooling unless you go in from one side at the bottom and out the other side at the top.

All the aluminum core CHRA "supercore" units require crossflow cooling. I find this a HUGE issue and unless there is a specialized note from Borg Warner where they publicly changed the engineering and they no longer require crossflow, I will stick with the Borg Warner documentation that states you MUST use crossflow cooling with their EFR series (which is what the ZFRs use, a EFR "supercore"). That documentation is available from Borg Warner themselves, page 40: https://www.borgwarner.com/docs/defa...ining_book.pdf

There are also a host of other sources which state the same thing in a condensed manner:

https://blog.turbosource.com/2016/02...llation-guide/

https://www.full-race.com/articles/e...all-guidelines