[Snakebt6]

I did the same as you..traded my 18 ZL1 for a 20 1LE version.

I paid 70,500 for the car..then tax on the trade in difference and registration etc.

[PROMETHEUS]

Originally Posted by Snowwolfe

If employee pricing is 5% off msrp how did you arrive at $62,500 for a car that had a msrp of $70k?

He is a dealer it is magic!

[PROMETHEUS]

Originally Posted by Trak-Toy

That price at Lindsay won’t stand. It’s a teaser to get you in the door. I went there when I was shopping for my ZLE and they had the same incentives listed. After the typical runaround, the sales manager came over and said they won’t do that pricing. They basically wanted sticker minus $1000 customer cash..

Unfortunately you have to play the game with Lindsay. When I bought mine, they tried the same run around and yes they like to include every discount imaginable in their "love it" price.

[Domo14SS]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Let me start by saying I own a Chevy dealer among other things. The answer to this question wildly varies depending on your zip code (rebates vary by location), the monthly programs, and the GM discount you qualify for. The pricing discussion with a Chevy ALWAYS starts at what program you qualify for. There's two different tiers of discount and a few different ways to get each. The best discount is GM Employee which is approximately 5% off MSRP. The second one is GM Supplier, around 2.5% off MSRP. Depending on who you know and what you do, you may qualify for one of the tiers (Work as an Educator, military, GM employee relative, or work for a supplier to GM etc.). Check your workplace against this website to see if yours counts. A surprisingly wide variety do. https://www.gmsupplierdiscount.com/about-the-discount/

Then there are the complex world of rebates which not only vary month to month, but customer to customer, vehicle to vehicle, and location to location. Rebates subtract off the sale price you qualify for as determined above. Rebates are relatively general on cars like ZL1's and they're pretty few and far in between. There's also different amounts of rebate or "consumer cash" between financing through GM Financial or through your own lender/bank or a lender your dealer is able to procure the best rate for you from.

There are technically 4 "prices" for Chevrolet vehicles. In order from highest to lowest:
MSRP - $70,000 for example
Invoice - $68,000 (This is what the dealer paid GM for the vehicle)
Supplier - $65,000
Employee $62,500

This means that whenever a dealer sells for Supplier or Employee, the dealer is negative on the books until GM refunds the dealer the difference to restore profitable transactions. A VERY common misconception is that dealers have thousands and thousands of dollars of margin on vehicles and if you "barter" hard enough, dealers will just start passing out thousands at a crack. This is not true. Dealers have around $2000 in margin to play with on ZL1s. Even less on cheaper vehicles. Compared to retail, restaurants, etc. the profit margin as a percentage of selling price is fairly pitiful as a dealer.

Please note a few things:

1) Dealers cannot give Supplier or Employee discount to those who do not qualify for it. All GM discounts require a PIN number to be provided to the dealer. We then provide this to GM in order to redeem the refund to recover our loss. For this reason, a dealer cannot just honor employee or supplier for someone who doesn't actually qualify for the program.
2) Dealers are not allowed to discount the selling price below GM Employee program price. It is against the dealer agreement.
3) Once the sell price is determined, say Employee, all rebates and consumer cash are subtracted from that price. As an above poster mentioned, rebates and consumer cash do not count as discounting the vehicle. This is because rebates and consumer cash come FROM GM. Not from the dealer.

Long story made longer, pricing on new vehicles, especially big three vehicles, is very complex. It takes months for sales consultants even to learn it inside and out. The complexity of the pricing process makes it seem like dealers are scamming you but in reality a lot of dealers these days run a pretty clean process and the immense competition means that most dealers will quote within dollars of each other if both have equal information. If you're getting a drastically different quote at one dealer to another, something is wrong. One of the dealers has wrong or better info from you OR are assuming a discount tier or leaving out fees/taxes etc. to lure you in the door.

I'm willing to discuss any questions about this subject. I'll break down any deal you're given. I can tell you that you'll be very hard pressed to find a dealer that will discount these vehicles very much at current times.

This information is awesome! You have a Message coming your way sir!

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by Snowwolfe

If employee pricing is 5% off msrp how did you arrive at $62,500 for a car that had a msrp of $70k?

I was using totally theoretical numbers.

Originally Posted by Trak-Toy

That price at Lindsay won’t stand. It’s a teaser to get you in the door. I went there when I was shopping for my ZLE and they had the same incentives listed. After the typical runaround, the sales manager came over and said they won’t do that pricing. They basically wanted sticker minus $1000 customer cash..

Coulda told ya as much. Dealers don't lose money and their Love It price, without you qualifying for GM rebates, would cause them to lose significantly.

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

That’s a pretty weak kickback. Thought it would be more.

If a dealer gets rate markup, reserve can be much more. Still, it's usually less than $500 a copy.

Originally Posted by Domo14SS

This information is awesome! You have a Message coming your way sir!

Looking forward to it.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS

He is a dealer it is magic!

No magic, just some theoretical numbers. Whoever deals with me will get the 100% truth, full disclosure.

[PROMETHEUS]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

No magic, just some theoretical numbers. Whoever deals with me will get the 100% truth, full disclosure.

I was kidding!

[serper3]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Well, it does all depend on the dealership you're at. Some are better or worse than others. The situation you describe does sound accurate. It's true that if you payoff or re-fi a contract, the bank will charge back any "reserve" that they paid the dealership on that deal. But that money isn't very significant.

What dealers do is take your credit in their management system, send the application with the car pricing breakdown to lenders, which most usually have access to 25+. This all happens digitally. Depending 100% on credit/income/vehicle price, there are automatic approvals/declines and manual reviews. Some approvals/lenders take seconds, others minutes, and others hours. The bank that sends back the best interest rate is usually the one the dealer selects. Each bank will pay a "flat" amount per contract, this is the reserve I mentioned. Usually dealers can get the best rate IF the business manager is a legitimate one. After all, they're essentially shopping banks at "wholesale" rates, whereas consumers are getting "retail" rates. So again, a good business manager makes all the difference.

As for the last part, all pricing systems take the sell price, rebates, taxes and rate specified to produce a payment. Dealers can quote based on an assumed rate, such as 3.99%. Then once they run your credit to see where you qualify for, they will re-quote/do final paperwork based on the actual rate a bank approved you for. Choose an ethical establishment and you'll be good to go.

Goes without saying, if you have outstanding credit, you have life on easy street and you don't need any "help" getting approved by being shopped at many different lenders like dealers can do rather easily. Bad credit or mediocre credit customers however will often greatly benefit from the business office.

Thank you for all of your info. Has been super helpful! Been lurking here for over a year, and had to sign up finally about a week ago to comment here!

I have been in the market for a zle for a long time (kick myself I didn't buy a year ago).

I am refinancing my house, and as soon as my refi is done, am going to be seriously shopping for a new or used (private party or dealership) zle. Have excellent credit. Can you recommend the best way to get financing!? Is it through the dealer since they get better rates? Any specific credit unions or banks you recommend working with? I kinda always liked getting my own financing because I feel like I know rates I am getting going into the dealership, but it sounds like this may not be ideal?

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by serper3

Thank you for all of your info. Has been super helpful! Been lurking here for over a year, and had to sign up finally about a week ago to comment here!

I have been in the market for a zle for a long time (kick myself I didn't buy a year ago).

I am refinancing my house, and as soon as my refi is done, am going to be seriously shopping for a new or used (private party or dealership) zle. Have excellent credit. Can you recommend the best way to get financing!? Is it through the dealer since they get better rates? Any specific credit unions or banks you recommend working with? I kinda always liked getting my own financing because I feel like I know rates I am getting going into the dealership, but it sounds like this may not be ideal?

No problem.

It's really a tough question to answer and is very customer specific. As far as what lenders to recommend, there's a few national and a few non-national options. GM Financial will almost always beat any bank/credit union on a New GM vehicle loan.

The issue is, the lender who gives the best rate is not always the bank that gets chosen at a dealership. It's dependent upon which will make the dealer the most money OR allow the most backend product. There's way too much to explain in a forum setting about those two subjects.

I can say with confidence that, with rare exception, whenever a customer brings in a rate quote from their own lender, we're able to shop it around and end up beating it. HOWEVER, this does not mean that it's always a good idea to bring in a quote. Because often, not always, with good credit customers, who bank with, say Huntington, Chase, or PNC etc. they'll get a rate quote that's fairly good, say 3.29% but still a retail rate. They bring that to the dealer, all proud of themselves. Meanwhile, the dealer procures a 2.29% rate at another lender but the business manager smiles nicely and says "And I was able to match the rate your lender gave you at 3.29%! Congratulations." Meanwhile, they pocketed the 1% mark up. Had you allowed them to just do their job and shop for rate, they probably would have come back with a lower rate had you not "showed your cards".

If your credit is good with no poor history with GMF, chances are GM Financial will be the best lender to go with. As far as answering which other lenders you should ask for, it's too regional and specific to answer. I'd worry that I'd give you bad information.

My recommendation:
1) Talk to your dealer and get a cash price out the door after taxes/fees/rebates/incentives/GM discount etc. Be clear that you're considering "external financing" from your own bank.
2) Take this cash price to your bank and see what they'd approve you at for a loan.
3) Go back to your dealer with the rate you were given and see what they can do. Remind them you're shopping them against this external offer. In order to submit to lenders, you'll have to do a quick credit application (usually done online on their website). Depending on what rate you got from your bank, what your credit is, they'll be able to pick a few lenders such as GMF, PNC, and Huntington and see what the rates come back with.

If it's better, go with the dealership's lender. If it's worse, just get the cash from your bank and pay the dealer. Keep in mind the processing time of going with your own financing vs. dealer financing. Units sell fast in current market times. Also, some dealers may be unwilling to sell you the car if you're doing cash because they will lose bank flats. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, GM almost always offers additional incentives, usually to the tune of $1000-$5000, to finance through GM Financial. This means that even if GM Financial is 4.5% and your bank is 2.5%, the payments could still be lower with GM Financial. All in all, there's a lot of reasons to just let dealers do their thing.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[serper3]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

No problem.

It's really a tough question to answer and is very customer specific. As far as what lenders to recommend, there's a few national and a few non-national options. GM Financial will almost always beat any bank/credit union on a New GM vehicle loan.

The issue is, the lender who gives the best rate is not always the bank that gets chosen at a dealership. It's dependent upon which will make the dealer the most money OR allow the most backend product. There's way too much to explain in a forum setting about those two subjects.

I can say with confidence that, with rare exception, whenever a customer brings in a rate quote from their own lender, we're able to shop it around and end up beating it. HOWEVER, this does not mean that it's always a good idea to bring in a quote. Because often, not always, with good credit customers, who bank with, say Huntington, Chase, or PNC etc. they'll get a rate quote that's fairly good, say 3.29% but still a retail rate. They bring that to the dealer, all proud of themselves. Meanwhile, the dealer procures a 2.29% rate at another lender but the business manager smiles nicely and says "And I was able to match the rate your lender gave you at 3.29%! Congratulations." Meanwhile, they pocketed the 1% mark up. Had you allowed them to just do their job and shop for rate, they probably would have come back with a lower rate had you not "showed your cards".

If your credit is good with no poor history with GMF, chances are GM Financial will be the best lender to go with. As far as answering which other lenders you should ask for, it's too regional and specific to answer. I'd worry that I'd give you bad information.

My recommendation:
1) Talk to your dealer and get a cash price out the door after taxes/fees/rebates/incentives/GM discount etc. Be clear that you're considering "external financing" from your own bank.
2) Take this cash price to your bank and see what they'd approve you at for a loan.
3) Go back to your dealer with the rate you were given and see what they can do. Remind them you're shopping them against this external offer. In order to submit to lenders, you'll have to do a quick credit application (usually done online on their website). Depending on what rate you got from your bank, what your credit is, they'll be able to pick a few lenders such as GMF, PNC, and Huntington and see what the rates come back with.

If it's better, go with the dealership's lender. If it's worse, just get the cash from your bank and pay the dealer. Keep in mind the processing time of going with your own financing vs. dealer financing. Units sell fast in current market times. Also, some dealers may be unwilling to sell you the car if you're doing cash because they will lose bank flats. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, GM almost always offers additional incentives, usually to the tune of $1000-$5000, to finance through GM Financial. This means that even if GM Financial is 4.5% and your bank is 2.5%, the payments could still be lower with GM Financial. All in all, there's a lot of reasons to just let dealers do their thing.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thank you again! This is a lot to unpack lol.

[2017Camaro2SS]

Great post! About to order 2021 ZL1 1LE here in Ontario, Canada. I spoke to my salesperson and he said if I wanted to get 2022 it might take a year. Is it true? Thank you.

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Let me start by saying I own a Chevy dealer among other things. The answer to this question wildly varies depending on your zip code (rebates vary by location), the monthly programs, and the GM discount you qualify for. The pricing discussion with a Chevy ALWAYS starts at what program you qualify for. There's two different tiers of discount and a few different ways to get each. The best discount is GM Employee which is approximately 5% off MSRP. The second one is GM Supplier, around 2.5% off MSRP. Depending on who you know and what you do, you may qualify for one of the tiers (Work as an Educator, military, GM employee relative, or work for a supplier to GM etc.). Check your workplace against this website to see if yours counts. A surprisingly wide variety do. https://www.gmsupplierdiscount.com/about-the-discount/

Then there are the complex world of rebates which not only vary month to month, but customer to customer, vehicle to vehicle, and location to location. Rebates subtract off the sale price you qualify for as determined above. Rebates are relatively general on cars like ZL1's and they're pretty few and far in between. There's also different amounts of rebate or "consumer cash" between financing through GM Financial or through your own lender/bank or a lender your dealer is able to procure the best rate for you from.

There are technically 4 "prices" for Chevrolet vehicles. In order from highest to lowest:
MSRP - $70,000 for example
Invoice - $68,000 (This is what the dealer paid GM for the vehicle)
Supplier - $65,000
Employee $62,500

This means that whenever a dealer sells for Supplier or Employee, the dealer is negative on the books until GM refunds the dealer the difference to restore profitable transactions. A VERY common misconception is that dealers have thousands and thousands of dollars of margin on vehicles and if you "barter" hard enough, dealers will just start passing out thousands at a crack. This is not true. Dealers have around $2000 in margin to play with on ZL1s. Even less on cheaper vehicles. Compared to retail, restaurants, etc. the profit margin as a percentage of selling price is fairly pitiful as a dealer.

Please note a few things:

1) Dealers cannot give Supplier or Employee discount to those who do not qualify for it. All GM discounts require a PIN number to be provided to the dealer. We then provide this to GM in order to redeem the refund to recover our loss. For this reason, a dealer cannot just honor employee or supplier for someone who doesn't actually qualify for the program.
2) Dealers are not allowed to discount the selling price below GM Employee program price. It is against the dealer agreement.
3) Once the sell price is determined, say Employee, all rebates and consumer cash are subtracted from that price. As an above poster mentioned, rebates and consumer cash do not count as discounting the vehicle. This is because rebates and consumer cash come FROM GM. Not from the dealer.

Long story made longer, pricing on new vehicles, especially big three vehicles, is very complex. It takes months for sales consultants even to learn it inside and out. The complexity of the pricing process makes it seem like dealers are scamming you but in reality a lot of dealers these days run a pretty clean process and the immense competition means that most dealers will quote within dollars of each other if both have equal information. If you're getting a drastically different quote at one dealer to another, something is wrong. One of the dealers has wrong or better info from you OR are assuming a discount tier or leaving out fees/taxes etc. to lure you in the door.

I'm willing to discuss any questions about this subject. I'll break down any deal you're given. I can tell you that you'll be very hard pressed to find a dealer that will discount these vehicles very much at current times.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by 2017Camaro2SS

Great post! About to order 2021 ZL1 1LE here in Ontario, Canada. I spoke to my salesperson and he said if I wanted to get 2022 it might take a year. Is it true? Thank you.

Possibly. Most factories, specifically that build Camaros, are shut down. There's also a chip shortage. We have no idea when everything will be back online. At this point, everything is an estimate.

[RapidZL3]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Possibly. Most factories, specifically that build Camaros, are shut down. There's also a chip shortage. We have no idea when everything will be back online. At this point, everything is an estimate.

Hey guys ordering a 2022 zle rapid blue 6 speed here in Canada and they’re dead stuck on this package that I don’t want the cavity wax and interior clean for 1700$...and they’re stuck on 5.5% finance is there anyway to beat these things ?

[Phil zl1]

Hate to burst your bubble. But are you aware of what is going on out there? Huge shortage of vehicles supply cannot meet demand. Expect to pay at least msrp and that is if you can get a car. No discounts going on at the present time anywhere. Dealers have ultra low levels of inventory and to survive they cannot give discounts .Supply and demand.