[Stex]

Will see what happens. Looks like a good corporate move for now for him. 7th gen should be in planning/development stage by now??? Anyone know the status of gen 7?
Not so green EVs are not doing it for me. Heck, I even dislike the DFI V-8 sound VS the cam/carb V-8s of the 60-70s....

Not liking the sound of this new GM direction. We have stressed electric grids now. Greens and media will not let an honest discussion on nuclear energy take place. They oppose it but know nothing about it. Bird killing, ground hogging and inefficient solar panels/windmills are OK?? All because of a man made global warming computer model developed and fed info by those that benefit from such??? Meanwhile we have greater know oil reserves now than 50-30 years ago...
Rant over, back on topic.

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

When trying to decipher whether there will be a Gen7 Camaro, we should all be looking in the parts bin to see if there is stuff there to support it. The Camaro went away for a while because of platform issues (there just wasn't a platform availalabe to support the business case).

If the rumors are true about the ME vette, there will be an engine for the Gen7 Camaro, namely the 500+HP Reworked LT1 (which is rumored to be the initial engine for the ME vette).

BUT, is there a platform for it? I don't know the Cadillac lineup well enough to know if there is something that could support the next gen Camaro as a worthy successer to the Alpha. If there is, there WILL be a Camaro. Why? Well, as stated above, the Camaro is a parts bin car. If there are parts in the bin, it makes great business sense becasue even if you only sell a limited amount, the sales help offset the development costs of other vehicles.

So, my question to folks who know GM better than me, is there such a platform?

So long story short... YES!!! It has already been confirmed that GM/Caddy is developing the Alpha II for the next gen CTS/ATS, so there is aboslutely a platform for the Gen 7 and I would say it's safe to assume that Chevy has be been developing the Gen 7 Camaro along side the new CTS/ATS since the beginning.

So I was hoping that a Gen 6 Z/28 would get an engine from the new Vette, well since now it's all but officially confirmed that we aren't getting a Z/28 this generation (I know I'm just as depressed about this as everyone else) I would say you are right on the money about the Gen 7 SS getting that reworked LT1 from the Vette. Some people are doubting the possibility of the "new" LT1 reaching the power number that the recent source is claiming of 500-550hp. I'm pretty confident that it's more than possible, basically take the improvements that Chevy made to the LT4 to get the LT5 (EXCEPT THE S/C) and they can definitely get get 500hp, though 550 may be a stretch.

So Alpha II with the "new" LT1 sounds like a pretty safe bet for the Gen 7 SS. Then later (or maybe even launch year for gen7) an LT5 powered ZL1? or it waits to get the TTV8 from the higher trim Vette? And I will be predicting/hoping for an N/A DOHC V8 in the neighborhood of 600hp for one of the trims on the Vette to get passed to the future Z/28. Does all of that sound reasonable/possible? Just my 2 cents haha

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by FNxR3DNECK

So long story short... YES!!! It has already been confirmed that GM/Caddy is developing the Alpha II for the next gen CTS/ATS, so there is aboslutely a platform for the Gen 7 and I would say it's safe to assume that Chevy has be been developing the Gen 7 Camaro along side the new CTS/ATS since the beginning.

So I was hoping that a Gen 6 Z/28 would get an engine from the new Vette, well since now it's all but officially confirmed that we aren't getting a Z/28 this generation (I know I'm just as depressed about this as everyone else) I would say you are right on the money about the Gen 7 SS getting that reworked LT1 from the Vette. Some people are doubting the possibility of the "new" LT1 reaching the power number that the recent source is claiming of 500-550hp. I'm pretty confident that it's more than possible, basically take the improvements that Chevy made to the LT4 to get the LT5 (EXCEPT THE S/C) and they can definitely get get 500hp, though 550 may be a stretch.

So Alpha II with the "new" LT1 sounds like a pretty safe bet for the Gen 7 SS. Then later (or maybe even launch year for gen7) an LT5 powered ZL1? or it waits to get the TTV8 from the higher trim Vette? And I will be predicting/hoping for an N/A DOHC V8 in the neighborhood of 600hp for one of the trims on the Vette to get passed to the future Z/28. Does all of that sound reasonable/possible? Just my 2 cents haha

Yes, it sounds resonable and possible.

I couldn't remember if the Alpha II and CTS/ATS was still going forward. I don't really follow Cadillac that much. Thanks for the clairification.

People posting here have to remember that even though the Camaro is usually posted up against the Mustang and Challenger in all the comparisons, the two vehicles are made for two completely different purposes. The Mustang's purpose is a halo car that brings attention and acolades to Ford Performance and the Ford brand. Ford has been willing to produce a Mustang on it's own unique platform because they need a halo car. In Chevy-land, that's the Corvette's job.

The purpose of the Camaro is a parts-bin car to offset the development costs of the higher end GM vehicles (like Corvette and Cadillac). You spend minimal development money on the Camaro and recoup more of the development costs of the parts you take from the bin.

So even though these cars are competing in the same segment, they in TOTALLY different categories as far as the business goes.

For Ford, if the Mustang goes away, they have to replace it with another halo type vehicle. Which they could do, but is very unlikely. They are going to dump significant money/effort into it's development as an attention getter. They may not have to make much money on the Mustang, as part of the Mustang is pure advertizing/marketing of the Ford brand.

For Chevy, the Camaro could dissapear, and it would not be that big of a deal (to Chevy). It's not the halo car, and it's absense would not necesarilly need to be replaced.

So, if you are a Chevy fan and want to know if there will be a 7th Gen, just look in the parts bin. If there are parts in the bin for a Camaro, there will be one. If they don't have the parts, there won't be one. (Of course that is a bit of an oversimplification, but I believe it's the biggest factor).

Going forward, the Camaro my "outgrow" it's status as a parts-bin car. If the C8 ends up costing a lot more, or folks aren't sold on the idea of a ME Chevy, the Camaro may grow into the gap left behind. Only time will tell, but for now, I believe there will be a Gen7 Camaro.

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Yes, it sounds resonable and possible.

I couldn't remember if the Alpha II and CTS/ATS was still going forward. I don't really follow Cadillac that much. Thanks for the clairification.

People posting here have to remember that even though the Camaro is usually posted up against the Mustang and Challenger in all the comparisons, the two vehicles are made for two completely different purposes. The Mustang's purpose is a halo car that brings attention and acolades to Ford Performance and the Ford brand. Ford has been willing to produce a Mustang on it's own unique platform because they need a halo car. In Chevy-land, that's the Corvette's job.

The purpose of the Camaro is a parts-bin car to offset the development costs of the higher end GM vehicles (like Corvette and Cadillac). You spend minimal development money on the Camaro and recoup more of the development costs of the parts you take from the bin.

So even though these cars are competing in the same segment, they in TOTALLY different categories as far as the business goes.

For Ford, if the Mustang goes away, they have to replace it with another halo type vehicle. Which they could do, but is very unlikely. They are going to dump significant money/effort into it's development as an attention getter. They may not have to make much money on the Mustang, as part of the Mustang is pure advertizing/marketing of the Ford brand.

For Chevy, the Camaro could dissapear, and it would not be that big of a deal (to Chevy). It's not the halo car, and it's absense would not necesarilly need to be replaced.

So, if you are a Chevy fan and want to know if there will be a 7th Gen, just look in the parts bin. If there are parts in the bin for a Camaro, there will be one. If they don't have the parts, there won't be one. (Of course that is a bit of an oversimplification, but I believe it's the biggest factor).

Going forward, the Camaro my "outgrow" it's status as a parts-bin car. If the C8 ends up costing a lot more, or folks aren't sold on the idea of a ME Chevy, the Camaro may grow into the gap left behind. Only time will tell, but for now, I believe there will be a Gen7 Camaro.

I'm not saying that your reasoning is incorrect, but I see the Ford GT as the Ford halo car. I see the ME C8 (dare I say Manta Ray?) as the new halo car to counter the Ford GT.

As to the Camaro being a parts bin car, how deeply have you dug into that? Certainly it shares a platform and an engine. Is that enough to call it "parts bin" or is there more? To my (perhaps twisted) way of thinking, the more the Camaro uses parts in common with other cars, the less expensive those parts are likely to be, so I certainly don't mind. I am just curious to what extent we can support the claim.

[Bhobbs]

If the Corvette ends up going DOHC TTV8, there probably won’t be an engine for the Camaro.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by Emoto

I'm not saying that your reasoning is incorrect, but I see the Ford GT as the Ford halo car. I see the ME C8 (dare I say Manta Ray?) as the new halo car to counter the Ford GT.

As to the Camaro being a parts bin car, how deeply have you dug into that? Certainly it shares a platform and an engine. Is that enough to call it "parts bin" or is there more? To my (perhaps twisted) way of thinking, the more the Camaro uses parts in common with other cars, the less expensive those parts are likely to be, so I certainly don't mind. I am just curious to what extent we can support the claim.

Let's put it this way: what was developed for the Camaro that is unique other than the exterior/interior styling? When Chevy develops a new engine, it goes into the Corvette first. When GM's subsidiary, Delphi, develped MRC, it went into a Cadillac first, then Corvette. How about the eDiff? How about dual-mode exhaust? How about charge air cooling? I really can't think of something that GM developed and it went into a Camaro first. Perhaps there is, but I can't think of anything. Even the Gen 5's DSSV dampers were not developed by GM (they are from Multimatic), nor were the carbon-ceramic brakes. Okay, perhaps the goofy color changing lighting was developed for the Camaro first, but that is all I can think of.

This isn't anything new, car companies usually spend their R&D dollars developing new technology for thier most expensive cars first, then the tech trickles down to the lesser models.

As for the Ford GT, that is a halo car technically speaking and it was sold to customers because of the class it was desgned to race in, but it's not one that sits out front of a dealership or in the showroom to attract buyers. BUT you will see the C8 there at some point... (unless they break Corvette off of Chevy as it's own brand, like Hyndai did with Genesis).

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

If the Corvette ends up going DOHC TTV8, there probably won’t be an engine for the Camaro.

How so?

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Let's put it this way: what was developed for the Camaro that is unique other than the exterior/interior styling? When Chevy develops a new engine, it goes into the Corvette first. When GM's subsidiary, Delphi, develped MRC, it went into a Cadillac first, then Corvette. How about the eDiff? How about dual-mode exhaust? How about charge air cooling? I really can't think of something that GM developed and it went into a Camaro first. Perhaps there is, but I can't think of anything. Even the Gen 5's DSSV dampers were not developed by GM (they are from Multimatic), nor were the carbon-ceramic brakes. Okay, perhaps the goofy color changing lighting was developed for the Camaro first, but that is all I can think of.

This isn't anything new, car companies usually spend their R&D dollars developing new technology for thier most expensive cars first, then the tech trickles down to the lesser models.

As for the Ford GT, that is a halo car technically speaking and it was sold to customers because of the class it was desgned to race in, but it's not one that sits out front of a dealership or in the showroom to attract buyers. BUT you will see the C8 there at some point... (unless they break Corvette off of Chevy as it's own brand, like Hyndai did with Genesis).

I think you are both on the right track, basically it's a win-win-win for GM/Chevy/Caddy. The entire lineup benefits from the "parts bin", if parts are used for more cars they have to make more and therefor the price for each individual part is going to be cheaper (how much cheaper is dependent on the part of course). And they can spread R&D across multiple divisions to develop stuff that goes into all 3 applications (Camaro/ATS&CTS/Vette) and they can share production facilities, aka: the Lansing plant for final assembly of the Alpha platform cars and the engine plant that makes LT1/LT4/LT5s.

This is a big reason why I've been saying for AGES that the sales deficit Camaro faces against the Stang and Challenger is a moot point because I GUARANTEE Chevy's profit margin on all of the Camaros is MUCH MORE than the other two, pure sales #s don't tell the whole story people!!!!

And trust me, we will absolutely see a Gen 7 Camaro "soon-ish", I guarantee they already have plenty of prototypes hidden behind closed doors. But don't be surprised if we see the new ATS/CTS that will share the Alpha II with the Gen 7 a year before we get ours. I personally am anticipating a 2021 ATS/CTS and then a 2022 Gen 7 Camaro.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by FNxR3DNECK

I think you are both on the right track, basically it's a win-win-win for GM/Chevy/Caddy. The entire lineup benefits from the "parts bin", if parts are used for more cars they have to make more and therefor the price for each individual part is going to be cheaper (how much cheaper is dependent on the part of course). And they can spread R&D across multiple divisions to develop stuff that goes into all 3 applications (Camaro/ATS&CTS/Vette) and they can share production facilities, aka: the Lansing plant for final assembly of the Alpha platform cars and the engine plant that makes LT1/LT4/LT5s.

This is a big reason why I've been saying for AGES that the sales deficit Camaro faces against the Stang and Challenger is a moot point because I GUARANTEE Chevy's profit margin on all of the Camaros is MUCH MORE than the other two, pure sales #s don't tell the whole story people!!!!

And trust me, we will absolutely see a Gen 7 Camaro "soon-ish", I guarantee they already have plenty of prototypes hidden behind closed doors. But don't be surprised if we see the new ATS/CTS that will share the Alpha II with the Gen 7 a year before we get ours. I personally am anticipating a 2021 ATS/CTS and then a 2022 Gen 7 Camaro.

I believe this is why Chevy is less aggressive with fleet sales than the others. Camaro’s volume helps the cost of the Cadillac Alpha platform, Corvette’s V8’s, eLSD, the A10, M6.... Parts bin sharing creates volume, not fleet.

IMO, if GM drops Cadillac coupes/sedans completely, the Camaro is toast. GM dropped the American built CT6 (Omega) pretty abruptly, so things could change fast for Alpha, but it’s a luxury cruiser in a market going CUV. As long as there is a market for upscale sport coupes, the CTx and Camaro will stay. ...IMO

[protovack]

I think Gen 7 is coming in 2021!

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I believe this is why Chevy is less aggressive with fleet sales than the others. Camaro’s volume helps the cost of the Cadillac Alpha platform, Corvette’s V8’s, eLSD, the A10, M6.... Parts bin sharing creates volume, not fleet.

IMO, if GM drops Cadillac coupes/sedans completely, the Camaro is toast. GM dropped the American built CT6 (Omega) pretty abruptly, so things could change fast for Alpha, but it’s a luxury cruiser in a market going CUV. As long as there is a market for upscale sport coupes, the CTx and Camaro will stay. ...IMO

Agreed. No platform, no Camaro. An engine could be easier to find in the parts bin. It may not be the most exciting offering, but without a platform, there will be no Camaro.

The only wild card here, is that if Corvette gets split off to it's own brand, Camaro becomes the halo car, and it could be on a stand-alone platform. Or the Camaro platform would trickle down to Buick or something...

But for now, as long as there are parts in the bin, there WILL be a Camaro.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I believe this is why Chevy is less aggressive with fleet sales than the others. Camaro’s volume helps the cost of the Cadillac Alpha platform, Corvette’s V8’s, eLSD, the A10, M6.... Parts bin sharing creates volume, not fleet.

IMO, if GM drops Cadillac coupes/sedans completely, the Camaro is toast. GM dropped the American built CT6 (Omega) pretty abruptly, so things could change fast for Alpha, but it’s a luxury cruiser in a market going CUV. As long as there is a market for upscale sport coupes, the CTx and Camaro will stay. ...IMO

True but there does need to be volume to keep the factory running. I would have to think an idle factory is worse for business than a few fleet sales. I also think volume will be a little more important now than it was. Alpha was spread out across 3 cars. Now Alpha-II is only going to be spread out across 2 cars, your going to have to make some of that up I would think.

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Agreed. No platform, no Camaro. An engine could be easier to find in the parts bin. It may not be the most exciting offering, but without a platform, there will be no Camaro.

The only wild card here, is that if Corvette gets split off to it's own brand, Camaro becomes the halo car, and it could be on a stand-alone platform. Or the Camaro platform would trickle down to Buick or something...

But for now, as long as there are parts in the bin, there WILL be a Camaro.

I just can't see that happening. I think even if they split Corvette into it's own brand, it will still have to have a car like the base stingray that is "affordable" Like I have said numerous times in threads like these, if I am in the market for a Corvette, I would never consider a Camaro because a Camaro will never be a corvette. I think trying to position Camaro in the "halo" model would be a disaster. Yes the top performing trims in Camaro might outperform base Corvette, but the Camaro is just that, it's just a Camaro. As long as the Corvette exists I don't see see anyway camaro becomes a halo car.

[protovack]

Corvette will never be split off. It just won't happen.
Camaro will continue to share platforms with other vehicles.
You think somehow GM is going to stop investing in light-weight high performance platforms for rear wheel drive cars?
Not a chance. That is how they keep the performance/enthusiast crowd's loyalty. I mean, look at the C8 for god's sake.
GM has a lot of flaws but they aren't stupid. Eventually people may tire of silly overpriced luxo-barges like the cadillac escalade.
Does that mean the Silverado is going to get cancelled? Of course not.
But oh if the ATS gets cancelled that means the Camaro is gone too? No.

In reality, there will always be a high performance platform. There will be premium/luxury cars built on it, and also value segment cars. One, or the other may go away for a few years at a time. The tech may evolve away from ICE to other drivetrains. But time has proven that people continually want high performance, and will pay for it. To not compete in that segment is just stupid, and GM is not stupid. So I would not worry too much.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by protovack

Corvette will never be split off. It just won't happen.
Camaro will continue to share platforms with other vehicles.
You think somehow GM is going to stop investing in light-weight high performance platforms for rear wheel drive cars?
Not a chance. That is how they keep the performance/enthusiast crowd's loyalty. I mean, look at the C8 for god's sake.
GM has a lot of flaws but they aren't stupid. Eventually people may tire of silly overpriced luxo-barges like the cadillac escalade.
Does that mean the Silverado is going to get cancelled? Of course not.
But oh if the ATS gets cancelled that means the Camaro is gone too? No.

In reality, there will always be a high performance platform. There will be premium/luxury cars built on it, and also value segment cars. One, or the other may go away for a few years at a time. The tech may evolve away from ICE to other drivetrains. But time has proven that people continually want high performance, and will pay for it. To not compete in that segment is just stupid, and GM is not stupid. So I would not worry too much.

First of all, how may Camaros sell each year? How many Silverados? Camaro can go away (like it already did before), and Chevy can continue to use the Corvette as it's high-performance halo car. But, if the Escalade whet away, Chevy would never stop selling full size pickups as a result. That is a false equivelency.

The reason the Camaro went away for many years was there was no suitable platform for it at the time, and since the Camaro was just a parts-bin car, Chevy wasn't going to devlop a stand-alone platform for the Camaro when they still had the Corvette as a halo car.

That already happend, so you can't say it can't happen, it already did once, so we know it's possible.

Secondly, that occured when MOST vehicle sales were cars. Now, nobody is buying cars anymore. Car sales have dropped off a cliff, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. IF Camaro can dissapear for lack of a platform when most platforms are cars, it is even MORE likely now that most vehicles are NOT cars, and Chevy already has a high-performance halo vehicle.

We know that as long as there is a suitable platform, there will be a Camaro. So, if Cadillac goes all FordMoCo, and drops all sedans/coupes, and goes to an SUV/CUV only lineup, there will be no Camaro. That's pretty obvious.

The only exception to that would be if Corvette became it's own brand. And, I only mention that as a possibility because that is the rumor right now. Now, I think that this part of the rumor is not true, but that is just my opionion, and you know what that is worth...

The rumor came from this article here:
http://www.thedrive.com/news/25325/c...pletely-report

Now as I said, I don't think this is true, but there is evidence to support such a theory. One is that the C7 and C8 are going to be produced at the same time for at least an intial period (as stated by GM). Why would they need to have two different versions of the Corvette at the same time? If Corvette became a brand (like Hyndai did with Genesis), they would need more than one vehicle. Otherwise, they don't.

BUT, if it WERE true, Chevy would need to promote the Camaro (or some other vehicle) to it's halo model. That WOULD justify a stand-alone platform, or at least developing a platform for Camaro, then letting it tricle down to lesser Chevy models or even a Buick model or two. That would increase the likelyhood of the Camaro's continued production.

But, as I stated, my OPINION is that Corvette will NOT get it's own brand, AND the Camaro will continue on the Alpha II platform with a reworked LT1 with over 500 N/A HP as the SS model.