Shudder in Steering Wheel Under High Speed Braking

Bwramos · 09-01-2018, 11:18 AM

Under high speed braking (freeway speeds), I get a shudder in the steering wheel and can even see increased vibration in the shift knob.

This is typically a sign of warped front rotors, correct?

It’s a ‘16 SS that I bought with 9k miles and is at 14k now.

I imagine that’s indicative of some pretty hard driving on those 9k?

TRZ06 · 09-01-2018, 01:32 PM

That sure sounds like warped rotors to me.

Not necessarily hard driving by itself, but hard braking followed by holding the brakes to where uneven cooling occurs.

Also, keep in mind that while GM put proper brakes on the 1LE and ZL1 models, the base models probably do not have the most robust rotors to begin with.

VinnAY · 09-01-2018, 02:08 PM

yeah that's most certainly warped rotors

Bwramos · 09-01-2018, 02:47 PM

Got it. Thanks for the replies.

Any recommendations for better rotors/pads?

Camarentino · 09-01-2018, 05:28 PM

Usually you feel warped rotors in the brake pedal no? But then again if there is only a vibration when braking then I would agree. To keep it simple you can replace with drilled or slotted rotors paird with a decent street pad. Unless you want to upgrade the brembos all together but $$$$

Sweptwing · 09-01-2018, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bwramos

Under high speed braking (freeway speeds), I get a shudder in the steering wheel and can even see increased vibration in the shift knob.

This is typically a sign of warped front rotors, correct?

It’s a ‘16 SS that I bought with 9k miles and is at 14k now.

I imagine that’s indicative of some pretty hard driving on those 9k?

I would also investigate the tires for a possible chord shift, especially if you have no brake pedal feedback.

vidkidZ · 12-29-2018, 04:10 PM

I have the same issue and have been through 3 sets of pads/rotors in 35k miles and currently have an open repair order at the dealership for a 4th set of pads/rotors. I use my 16 2SS vert as a daily driver with a mix of open highway with areas of some rush hour traffic,

It's a shame the 4 piston brembo brakes are unable to handle demands of a daily driver.

Scargoes · 12-29-2018, 08:45 PM

Not likely warped rotors if you only feel the shudder in the steering wheel or chassis and not the brake pedal. That feeling is from brake pad deposits. Check out the Stoptech whitepaper for a better explination.

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...nd-other-myths

bturner2 · 12-30-2018, 08:07 AM

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

vidkidZ · 12-30-2018, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bturner2

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

Great in theory. Here is where I disagree in regards to the camaro ss.... I drove a Magnum SRT-8 with brenbo's, and a 370Z as a daily driver on the same roads and never had an issue with the brakes / rotors. Just to be clear, I have NEVER had a problem with brakes on ANY car like the 2016 Camaro SS.

The roads in the Metro Seattle Area are far from flat. When driving down hill at high velocities, if traffic comes to a stop, the brake pedal is the only choice. If I have an automatic, I should not have to put the car in neutral when traffic comes to a stop so I can take my foot off the pedal in rush hour traffic.

So if the problem pointed to above is the issue, the pads gm ships from the factor are inferior in design and are screwing up the rotors with deposits that should not be happening.

ctrlz · 02-01-2019, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidkidZ

Great in theory... I have NEVER had a problem with brakes on ANY car like the 2016 Camaro SS.

Similar experience. new rotors at about 15K miles and just had those rotors resurfaced at about 17.5k miles. Both times the problem was pulsation under braking. I am not hard on brakes and have a manual, and I know enough not to keep the pedal pressed if the brakes are hot. I know this problem is disc thickness variation and not really "warping."
I am not sure the problem is due to uneven pad deposits. I also experienced subtle vibration when brakes were not applied. So, I think that even slight DTV allows the rotors to rub the pads (even when not braking) and the problem just spirals quickly from there.
I decided to switch out the stock semi-metallic pads for ceramics and see how it goes.

sadpanda · 02-01-2019, 03:18 PM

Ugh... Brakes again.

There are many things that cause vibration while braking: glazing, wheel bearings, cracked/stressed/cheap rotors or pads, wheels, bad tires, etc

Brembo makes different versions of their blanks for various vendors. Delco specifically has multiple grades of rotor. The good ones are balanced and coated, the cheap ones are not. No matter what brand you get, make sure they are balanced... Thats alot of weight spinning awfully fast NOT to be balanced.

Check the bearings for run out, check the rotors for runout while mounted on the hub and torqued with a plate, check the hub for rust/debris, check the wheels for bend/runout/balance. If tires are in question, demand a road-force balance check before replacing them. Runflats seem to be much more prone to internal structural failurs.

As far as glazing and hot spotting, try a different set of pads (akebono ceramic if you don't want heavy dust or powerstop because racecar).I wash all rotors with a scrub brush and dawn, then lightly abrade with sanding block while spinning rotor, then brake kleen then follow pad bedding procedure.

Never hold the brake 'hard' while stopped at a light or stop sign (or at all if you have a MT) ESPECIALLY if you just had a heavy braking event or series of braking events aka driving hard/autocross.

Cheers

Cheveyboy · 02-02-2019, 09:57 AM

Some re-bedding may serv some good. Depending on how bad the deposits are, sometimes you can get lucky with running through some of the moderate re-bedding steps.

ctrlz · 02-03-2019, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheveyboy

Some re-bedding may serv some good. Depending on how bad the deposits are, sometimes you can get lucky with running through some of the moderate re-bedding steps.

I think it's kind of a downward spiral once you have significant DTV and deposits start forming on the pads. The high spots on the rotors only serve to heat the pad surface more.
Stoptech says it better on their web site:
It gets worse. Cast iron is an alloy of iron and silicon in solution interspersed with particles of carbon. At elevated temperatures, inclusions of carbides begin to form in the matrix. In the case of the brake disk, any uneven deposits - standing proud of the disc surface - become hotter than the surrounding metal. Every time that the leading edge of one of the deposits rotates into contact with the pad, the local temperature increases. When this local temperature reaches around 1200 or 1300 degrees F. the cast iron under the deposit begins to transform into cementite (an iron carbide in which three atoms of iron combine with one atom of carbon). Cementite is very hard, very abrasive and is a poor heat sink. If severe use continues the system will enter a self-defeating spiral - the amount and depth of the cementite increases with increasing temperature and so does the brake roughness. Drat!

09-01-2018, 11:18 AM	#1
Bwramos Drives: 2016 Camaro SS Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: California Posts: 14	Shudder in Steering Wheel Under High Speed Braking Under high speed braking (freeway speeds), I get a shudder in the steering wheel and can even see increased vibration in the shift knob. This is typically a sign of warped front rotors, correct? It’s a ‘16 SS that I bought with 9k miles and is at 14k now. I imagine that’s indicative of some pretty hard driving on those 9k?

09-01-2018, 01:32 PM	#2
TRZ06 Drives: 22' Porsche PDK GT4 Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Bay Area Posts: 2,014	That sure sounds like warped rotors to me. Not necessarily hard driving by itself, but hard braking followed by holding the brakes to where uneven cooling occurs. Also, keep in mind that while GM put proper brakes on the 1LE and ZL1 models, the base models probably do not have the most robust rotors to begin with. __________________ Current: 22' Porsche PDK GT4 (MCS 2-way remote dampers) Previous: 18' NFG 2SS *1LE* (ZL1 1LE solid rear cradle bushings & Corsa Exhaust) 16' F80 M3 (Ohlin R/T Coilovers) 13' Audi TTRS (APR Stage 1, MSS Springs) 09' C6 Z06 08' E90 M3 06' 335i (KW V2 Coilovers) 03' C5 Z06

09-01-2018, 05:28 PM	#5
Camarentino Drives: 2018 Camaro 1SS 1LE Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Toronto, CAN Posts: 210	Usually you feel warped rotors in the brake pedal no? But then again if there is only a vibration when braking then I would agree. To keep it simple you can replace with drilled or slotted rotors paird with a decent street pad. Unless you want to upgrade the brembos all together but $$$$ __________________ 2018 Camaro 1SS 1LE w/PDR Summit White KN intake-MBRP cb- 2nd cat deletes- ACS sides- iroc Z spoiler- Eibach Pro- Katech 95TB- MSD Manifold-GM strut bar- Custom tune by Arun Ahuja @ CCPERF.ca

12-29-2018, 08:45 PM	#8
Scargoes Drives: 2018 Hyper Blue 2SS 1LE Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Dessert Posts: 486	Not likely warped rotors if you only feel the shudder in the steering wheel or chassis and not the brake pedal. That feeling is from brake pad deposits. Check out the Stoptech whitepaper for a better explination. http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...nd-other-myths __________________ 2018 Hyper Blue Metallic 2SS 1LE with Nav, PDR, and track alignment 1:34.20 Willow Springs Big Track

09-01-2018, 02:08 PM	#3
VinnAY Account Suspended Drives: 18 1SS/1LE Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Missouri Posts: 939	yeah that's most certainly warped rotors

09-01-2018, 02:47 PM	#4
Bwramos Drives: 2016 Camaro SS Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: California Posts: 14	Got it. Thanks for the replies. Any recommendations for better rotors/pads?

12-29-2018, 04:10 PM	#7
vidkidZ Mobile/Embedded Architect Drives: '16 2SS white convertible Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Mill Creek, WA Posts: 93	I have the same issue and have been through 3 sets of pads/rotors in 35k miles and currently have an open repair order at the dealership for a 4th set of pads/rotors. I use my 16 2SS vert as a daily driver with a mix of open highway with areas of some rush hour traffic, It's a shame the 4 piston brembo brakes are unable to handle demands of a daily driver.

12-30-2018, 08:07 AM	#9
bturner2 Drives: 2SS, Hyper Blue, Sunroof, NPP, MRC Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Michigan Posts: 205	^^^^ THIS ^^^^

02-01-2019, 03:18 PM	#12
sadpanda Drives: 2014 ATS 2.0T 6MT Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: ohio Posts: 66	Ugh... Brakes again. There are many things that cause vibration while braking: glazing, wheel bearings, cracked/stressed/cheap rotors or pads, wheels, bad tires, etc Brembo makes different versions of their blanks for various vendors. Delco specifically has multiple grades of rotor. The good ones are balanced and coated, the cheap ones are not. No matter what brand you get, make sure they are balanced... Thats alot of weight spinning awfully fast NOT to be balanced. Check the bearings for run out, check the rotors for runout while mounted on the hub and torqued with a plate, check the hub for rust/debris, check the wheels for bend/runout/balance. If tires are in question, demand a road-force balance check before replacing them. Runflats seem to be much more prone to internal structural failurs. As far as glazing and hot spotting, try a different set of pads (akebono ceramic if you don't want heavy dust or powerstop because racecar).I wash all rotors with a scrub brush and dawn, then lightly abrade with sanding block while spinning rotor, then brake kleen then follow pad bedding procedure. Never hold the brake 'hard' while stopped at a light or stop sign (or at all if you have a MT) ESPECIALLY if you just had a heavy braking event or series of braking events aka driving hard/autocross. Cheers

02-02-2019, 09:57 AM	#13
Cheveyboy Drives: 2016 Camaro SS Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Kannapolis Posts: 13	Some re-bedding may serv some good. Depending on how bad the deposits are, sometimes you can get lucky with running through some of the moderate re-bedding steps.

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