[chuckclanton]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

It's the options and choices the manufacturers make that make these comparison's interesting. Trying to hard to make things "fair" would result in a comparison of the same vehicle with two different colored paints...

Tire test comparisons are done on the same car. If you have Michelin SS
on the Camaro and PZeros on the BMW would you buy the results?
Or the other way around? Probably not. I know on the track the tires are a game changer. Or advertise what tires are on each car so the reader
can make their own evaluation of the test results. Give me a break,
the same paint!

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by chuckclanton

Tire test comparisons are done on the same car. If you have Michelin SS
on the Camaro and PZeros on the BMW would you buy the results?
Or the other way around? Probably not. I know on the track the tires are a game changer. Or advertise what tires are on each car so the reader
can make their own evaluation of the test results. Give me a break,
the same paint!

So what. People just as easily buy into results with cars having different hp. Different transmissions. Different brake pads. Different everything.

Its original equipment vs original equipment.

Plus the car needs to be calibrated for the different tires etc. Is every car in every test going to get the same tires and then suspension tuning?

Whats the point? How does that even display what the manufacturers have uniquely done with each vehicle?

Balancing performance with tire choice is an art. Not everyone wants super sticky tires that will be wore down in 5k miles.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by chuckclanton

Tire test comparisons are done on the same car. If you have Michelin SS
on the Camaro and PZeros on the BMW would you buy the results?
Or the other way around? Probably not. I know on the track the tires are a game changer. Or advertise what tires are on each car so the reader
can make their own evaluation of the test results. Give me a break,
the same paint!

I bolded a statement above to respond specifically: this was not a tire comparison test.

This was car vs car. If manufacturer A chose an "inferior" tire to manufacturer B, and car B won the comparison: that's there fault.

I mentioned paint to exaggerate the point you brought up of making things "fair"...both of these cars are high performance coupes, and each manufacturer made decisions (including tires) to hopefully make their cars the best they can be. The magazine intends to pit them head-to-head and see which one is better. It's *not* fair...to expect equipment to be replaced to be equal in both of the cars during such a comparison.

The only time you start replacing tires for the purposes of auto comparisons is to scientifically evaluate one specific system on a car and need to keep the environment the same. But that's not what they were doing here.

Do you think it would have been fair to equip all the cars the Z/28 was pitted against with Trofeos? Or to put Pilot Super Sports on the Z/28 for comparisons to "track cars" that don't have R compound tires? I would hope not...

[chuckclanton]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I bolded a statement above to respond specifically: this was not a tire comparison test.

This was car vs car. If manufacturer A chose an "inferior" tire to manufacturer B, and car B won the comparison: that's there fault.

I mentioned paint to exaggerate the point you brought up of making things "fair"...both of these cars are high performance coupes, and each manufacturer made decisions (including tires) to hopefully make their cars the best they can be. The magazine intends to pit them head-to-head and see which one is better. It's *not* fair...to expect equipment to be replaced to be equal in both of the cars during such a comparison.

The only time you start replacing tires for the purposes of auto comparisons is to scientifically evaluate one specific system on a car and need to keep the environment the same. But that's not what they were doing here.

Do you think it would have been fair to equip all the cars the Z/28 was pitted against with Trofeos? Or to put Pilot Super Sports on the Z/28 for comparisons to "track cars" that don't have R compound tires? I would hope not...

I'm not interested in "fair" just whats the better performing car, excluding tires, as I can fix that issue real easy! that being said\, motor trend
May 2016 has the full article. Reviewing the data and car specs shows the
Camaro SS is the better performance car. The BMW is running 9x19s front
with Michelin 255 SuperSports and 19x10s with 275s. Wheels are forged.
Also Ceramic brakes, less weight and a form of MRC suspension. The
Camaro won or tied all performance tests except the road course which the BMW won by about .3 Sec.(BMW had only a 1/2 tank gas by mistake). The BMW had the edge in the corners probably due to the bigger super sport
tires.

[Bosse'sBoss]

Bumped article. It's great to know that our Camaros easily can go H2H VS the BMW M. For much less $. Great Alpha chassis and LT1 engine. It's why I recently replaced my Stingray for one.

[metros11]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

Bumped article. It's great to know that our Camaros easily can go H2H VS the BMW M. For much less $. Great Alpha chassis and LT1 engine. It's why I recently replaced my Stingray for one.

This Motor Trend video is what drew my interest in the Camaro. I was looking at the Mustang GT prior. That's a lot of accolades from a publication that has been married to BMW for a long time now.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Get over it people. Whew. Buy what you want and can afford and stop hating on your next door neighbor. It’s all magazine soap opera.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

Get over it people. Whew. Buy what you want and can afford and stop hating on your next door neighbor. It’s all magazine soap opera.

Nobody is "hating". However this is a sport and as such it is competitive. GM makes cars that have the same performance as cars that are much more expensive. Although we don't get the same tech and options, all we really care about is the performance. With BMW you pay ZL1 pricing, get Cadillac options and comfort, but SS performance. With GM you can skip all that stuff if you don't really care about it, still get a very well optioned vehicle, and the same performance, but spend much less. That is why we have and need these comparisons.

However I will add that the BMW would be the more practical car. But if all you want is a weekend toy then the SS might be better.

[Bosse'sBoss]

Well said

[oldman]

what surprised me was we are talking SS not 1LE LOL crazy. As a funny aside, I'm also on the ricer board (race both a Integra Type R and a supercharged 2015 Civic SI), all the speculation about how fast the new Type R is because of its "ringer" ring time, has fallen falt as the SS is 2 seconds faster around Willow, just as I predicted on the ricer board. No actual owner of a Type R has been able to get their car anywhere close to Honda's ring time; yet Honda insist their only mods are tire and a full floating roll cage that does not increase the strength of the chassis. LOL right.....

[Quinten_33]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Nobody is "hating". However this is a sport and as such it is competitive. GM makes cars that have the same performance as cars that are much more expensive. Although we don't get the same tech and options, all we really care about is the performance. With BMW you pay ZL1 pricing, get Cadillac options and comfort, but SS performance. With GM you can skip all that stuff if you don't really care about it, still get a very well optioned vehicle, and the same performance, but spend much less. That is why we have and need these comparisons.

However I will add that the BMW would be the more practical car. But if all you want is a weekend toy then the SS might be better.

a 1SS 1LE is just as well equipped as a base M4, if not better, and adding features to the BMW is a lot more expensive. You even have to pay extra to get Apple CarPlay and AndroidAuto in an M4.

“The ultimate driving machine” lol

[Traind]

Originally Posted by oldman

what surprised me was we are talking SS not 1LE LOL crazy. As a funny aside, I'm also on the ricer board (race both a Integra Type R and a supercharged 2015 Civic SI), all the speculation about how fast the new Type R is because of its "ringer" ring time, has fallen falt as the SS is 2 seconds faster around Willow, just as I predicted on the ricer board. No actual owner of a Type R has been able to get their car anywhere close to Honda's ring time; yet Honda insist their only mods are tire and a full floating roll cage that does not increase the strength of the chassis. LOL right.....

The thing the Type R will give you is confidence... more of it, more quickly than a SS 1LE. This may account for some of the Ring lap time although it is very hard to see just how a car with that hp/weight can lap a high speed track like the ring that fast.

VIR Grand Course has a blend of turns but with 3 very fast sections. The Type R was something like 9 seconds slower there than the SS 1LE with C&D at the wheel. That is a big difference on a 4.1 mile track. But I do love those stock seats in the Type R. Not the red, but the bolstering. The Camaro Recaros are great seats but the Type R's grip you like a race seat.

[oldman]

My Integra Type R has always been more tossable than any muscle car, Challenger by far the worst in the "tossability" category. Still the car is too ugly for me to buy... just saying.

Found this so we can tell what the 4 bangers can do:
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/hond...lf-r-track-map

1:25.4 for the Type R, to be honest on the ricer board I have been saying for a while no way the R beats the SS in the US with stock equipment and 100% OEM. That the ring has to be a fudged figure... The initial Rs and maybe even today, had overheating problems in the USofA. I have lost track as the car is too ugly for me to consider.

[kttxz06]

I'd never buy a M series. Why? Well, I know I have a Zl1 and not a SS, but I remember last year when I was out banging in Mexico. I saw a M coming up on me quick. He flew by me at least doing a bill 10. Maybe more. I said, oh, how cute. Paddled down to 3rd. That Pro Charger said hello........................I flew by him like he was sitting still. Then i sat there and thought what just happened and I was actually quite amazed that a car blowing by me at 110 plus and I was able to just down shift, get into boost and within a few seconds I was already on his ass and passing him. Why? Because I was still building and he was flat lining. V8's are monsters up top.