ZL1's 10 Speed Hydra-Matic Automatic Transmission Faster Than DCT / PDK - Page 2

SuperSound · 05-11-2016, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Sure, Ford and GM codeveloped the 9 and 10 speeds. Ford took the 10 and GM the 9. That isn't a knock against either company.

Yep I knew the point you were making, just wanted it to be extra clear for those who haven't been following these projects. IMO it's one of the smartest moves I've seen between automakers in awhile.

Bhobbs · 05-11-2016, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Yep I knew the point you were making, just wanted it to be extra clear for those who haven't been following these projects. IMO it's one of the smartest moves I've seen between automakers in awhile.

This was a good plan. Both benefit tremendously from this and it helps us out as the consumer, but people shouldn't pretend this is a GM transmission. My understanding is Ford did the engineering on the 10 speed, but GM developed their own electronics and controls. GM did the engineering on the 9 speed, and Ford is developing their own electronics and controls.

shaffe · 05-11-2016, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Co-developed. This is not a "Ford" transmission, any more than it is a "GM" transmission.

And each company developed their own controller software/tuning/programming for the transmissions.

Yet you read the press releases and it sure seems like a fully inhouse built by GM trans lol.

Either way I think it is fantastic that they worked together on this.

Sven59 · 05-11-2016, 10:44 AM

Another article. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...a-mustang-too/
More. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...-transmission/

SuperSound · 05-11-2016, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

This was a good plan. Both benefit tremendously from this and it helps us out as the consumer, but people shouldn't pretend this is a GM transmission. My understanding is Ford did the engineering on the 10 speed, but GM developed their own electronics and controls. GM did the engineering on the 9 speed, and Ford is developing their own electronics and controls.

My understanding is Ford did not have any designs for a 6+ speed trans at the time of the agreement. GM had the 8 speed already (maybe not in production). So GM gave them plans for the 8 speed which gave Ford the knowledge needed to go to the next step (10 speed). Ford pays for the development of the 9 speed and GM gets the 10 speed for the shared technology. Both save on development costs since it would have been too expensive to develop both transmissions to be ready before 2018. We may never know the exact details of the deal, but regardless neither would have a 10 speed at this point without the other.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 05-11-2016, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

This was a good plan. Both benefit tremendously from this and it helps us out as the consumer, but people shouldn't pretend this is a GM transmission. My understanding is Ford did the engineering on the 10 speed, but GM developed their own electronics and controls. GM did the engineering on the 9 speed, and Ford is developing their own electronics and controls.

No, the engineering was shared across the board, except for the electronics and controls. As it was explained to me at the ZL1 reveal, Ford and GM did the core engineering together on the 10 speed (that was the point of our conversation at the time), and then went their separate ways to refine and apply the units.

It's good that the packaging remained about the same as the 8-speed, because this means GM can turn it into a rear-transaxle piece for Stingray...

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yet you read the press releases and it sure seems like a fully inhouse built by GM trans lol.

Either way I think it is fantastic that they worked together on this.

How would you phrase it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven59

Another article. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...a-mustang-too/
More. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...-transmission/

thebiglubinsky · 05-11-2016, 11:13 AM

Since they didn't mention the downshift speeds, could that mean it's slower to downshift then the PDK? Hopefully not...

shaffe · 05-11-2016, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

No, the engineering was shared across the board, except for the electronics and controls. As it was explained to me at the ZL1 reveal, Ford and GM did the core engineering together on the 10 speed (that was the point of our conversation at the time), and then went their separate ways to refine and apply the units.

It's good that the packaging remained about the same as the 8-speed, because this means GM can turn it into a rear-transaxle piece for Stingray...

How would you phrase it?

Me personally I would have called it like it is, that it was Co-Developed but thats just me lol.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 05-11-2016, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaffe

Me personally I would have called it like it is, that it was Co-Developed but thats just me lol.

I'll bet both Ford and GM agreed on what terms to market these components. And as much as they benefitted from the collaboration...I doubt they want each others' names in their own press releases.

SuperSound · 05-11-2016, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I'll bet both Ford and GM agreed on what terms to market these components. And as much as they benefitted from the collaboration...I doubt they want each others' names in their own press releases.

That's the truth.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

*Mr. Wyndham* · 05-11-2016, 11:41 AM

Also...I want to point out for those reading and watching....when you hit the paddle for an upshift...it really does "Bang" like Aaron said in the facebook video.

They tuned the engine to cut spark momentarily as the transmission shifts, so you get a loud backfire on every upshift under WOT. And man-o-man is it loud.

KMPrenger · 05-11-2016, 12:22 PM

This is a pretty amazing unit...I love it. Can't wait to read more about driver's thoughts of it.

I love the 8 speed in my SS, and this just seems even better. I think the 8 speed is pretty damn quick as is. Sure...if you are cruising leisurely around town and use the paddles, the shifts are just OK...nothing special. But get that sucker warmed up, and then go hard on the throttle and up shift....its super quick. (and the upshift sound is also pretty awesome since it basically kind of backfires on purpose with each shift)

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebiglubinsky

Since they didn't mention the downshift speeds, could that mean it's slower to downshift then the PDK? Hopefully not...

I am sure its slower on the downshift. Like the 8 speed, the upshift under WOT is faster than the downshifts, not that I'd exactly call them slow either.

Lucely Engineered · 05-11-2016, 12:23 PM

This is not the first transmission that was a joint venture between Ford and GM. The 6F and 6t Transmissions were as well. I wont get into the 10 and 9 speed since not everything is released to public.

*As these views are mine and not that of GM corporate.*

mjw930 · 05-11-2016, 07:54 PM

I'd hesitate taking the "it's faster than a PDK" rhetoric to heart until these get on the road. They produced the same numbers and made the same claim on the A8 but neglected to add that it only achieves those numbers in auto mode under WOT acceleration.

If you've owned / driven a PDK and an SS or C7 with the A8 it becomes painfully clear that in normal street operation the A8 responds much more like a typical GM auto than a true dual clutch. It's all in the programming, perhaps they decided to forget trying to make the off throttle shifts feel like a luxury car and keep the hard edge feel, at least when you switch over to manual mode.

05-11-2016, 10:44 AM	#18
Sven59 HAMMER PILOT Drives: 13 ZL1#182, 85 CJ7, 16 Silverado Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 4,386	Another article. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...a-mustang-too/ More. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...-transmission/ __________________ "DO YOU WANT ME TO PUT THE HAMMER DOWN?"

05-11-2016, 11:41 AM	#25
Mr. Wyndham I used to be Dragoneye... Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 31,876 View My Garage	Also...I want to point out for those reading and watching....when you hit the paddle for an upshift...it really does "Bang" like Aaron said in the facebook video. They tuned the engine to cut spark momentarily as the transmission shifts, so you get a loud backfire on every upshift under WOT. And man-o-man is it loud. __________________ *"Keep the faith."* - Fbodfather

05-11-2016, 12:23 PM	#27
Lucely Engineered Drives: 2016 Camaro 2SS M6 Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Michigan Posts: 188	This is not the first transmission that was a joint venture between Ford and GM. The 6F and 6t Transmissions were as well. I wont get into the 10 and 9 speed since not everything is released to public. As these views are mine and not that of GM corporate. __________________

05-11-2016, 11:13 AM	#21
thebiglubinsky Drives: Infiniti G37S Join Date: May 2015 Location: Nor Cal Posts: 47	Since they didn't mention the downshift speeds, could that mean it's slower to downshift then the PDK? Hopefully not...

05-11-2016, 07:54 PM	#28
mjw930 Drives: 2015 Porsche BGTS, 2016 2SS Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Ormond Beach, FL Posts: 235	I'd hesitate taking the "it's faster than a PDK" rhetoric to heart until these get on the road. They produced the same numbers and made the same claim on the A8 but neglected to add that it only achieves those numbers in auto mode under WOT acceleration. If you've owned / driven a PDK and an SS or C7 with the A8 it becomes painfully clear that in normal street operation the A8 responds much more like a typical GM auto than a true dual clutch. It's all in the programming, perhaps they decided to forget trying to make the off throttle shifts feel like a luxury car and keep the hard edge feel, at least when you switch over to manual mode.

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