[LesBaer]

Originally Posted by jwisjw

While I understand the SS 1LE is a great car I would like to think there could be improvements over what GM has provided.

Taking Fifty's spring data.

Non-MRC SS Rates: 137 lbs/in (Front) 577 lbs/in (Rear)
1LE Rates: 178 lbs/in (Front) 539 lbs/in (Rear)

Spring rates seem to be within the "noise". The two major variables would possibly be the MRC vs Non MRC shocks and the Non MRC SS has bumpstops that play into the suspension package vs the SS 1LE, which I don't believe it has bumpstops.

Rough Swaybar Data

Talked with a MFG and according to them the swaybars are increased ~21% in the front and 36% in the rear from the SS vs the SS 1LE

Front Bar Rate
SS - ~376lbs/inch
SS 1LE - ~457lbs/inch

Rear Bar Rate
SS - ~115lbs/inch
SS 1LE - ~157lbs/inch

From a limited autocross experience with the SS 1LE, I personally think it could improve especially with various surfaces. Transitionally it is much better than my stock SS but still a little eager in the rear, not sure if that is due to the wheel widths/shocks/swaybars. I do have a Custom Koni package that I recently installed on my SS, so I should know shortly how much that will improve the car transitionally and loading it laterally. Then I will determine if I need a front or rear bar within the next couple of events.

Looking at the overall data provided though, the SS 1LE improvements really seem to be just an OTS (off the shelf) sway bar solutions that a lot of MFG would have probably provided if the SS 1LE wasn't around. Maybe because the SS 1LE package came out, some MFG's may have changed their test mule to that package. To me it doesn't seem out of line to wonder if the ZL1 1LE offers stiffer bars.

So minus all the drama, what's the consensus recommendation for someone with a 2016 SS, running R88R's (285/30/20 on a 20x10 and 315/30/20 on a 20x11) that doesn't want to ruin their MRC shocks after a few months of driving? I know they've discontinued to the FE4 kit for 2016 MRC cars since they can't reflash the shocks. I started thinking about getting the springs and sway bars separately, but I think that may be put too much stress on the MRC. I'm currently thinking a sway bar upgrade may also do damage over time. I agree that all of these things are a designed to work together. Just going to a stickier tire alone is probably going to put more stress (probably not a lot) on my MRC I figure...just want to be smart about this. It's just a street car for me.


Thanks

[jwisjw]

Originally Posted by LesBaer

So minus all the drama, what's the consensus recommendation for someone with a 2016 SS, running R88R's (285/30/20 on a 20x10 and 315/30/20 on a 20x11) that doesn't want to ruin their MRC shocks after a few months of driving? I know they've discontinued to the FE4 kit for 2016 MRC cars since they can't reflash the shocks. I started thinking about getting the springs and sway bars separately, but I think that may be put too much stress on the MRC. I'm currently thinking a sway bar upgrade may also do damage over time. I agree that all of these things are a designed to work together. Just going to a stickier tire alone is probably going to put more stress (probably not a lot) on my MRC I figure...just want to be smart about this. It's just a street car for me.


Thanks

Honestly I don't have any direct feedback with the MRC and aftermarket bars in an autocross environment.

FWIW though, I've switched over from the SS 1LE bar to the Hotchkis bar, which is significantly stiffer over my stock bar (40% stiffer over SS 1LE FSB and 70% stiffer over SS bar) and have huge improvements on my Non MRC car with Custom Valved Koni's that we made in an autocross environment. Keep in mind that I'm on stock 8.5"/9.5" wheels on RE71R with stock springs.

[LesBaer]

Originally Posted by jwisjw

Honestly I don't have any direct feedback with the MRC and aftermarket bars in an autocross environment.

FWIW though, I've switched over from the SS 1LE bar to the Hotchkis bar, which is significantly stiffer over my stock bar (40% stiffer over SS 1LE FSB and 70% stiffer over SS bar) and have huge improvements on my Non MRC car with Custom Valved Koni's that we made in an autocross environment. Keep in mind that I'm on stock 8.5"/9.5" wheels on RE71R with stock springs.

Ok thanks anyway for getting back to me. I've heard that the bars alone won't do much compared to the tuning, so i'm trying to find out if I can change our the suspension control module to a 2017 so I can then use the kit (and get the tuning).

[glamcem]

so does anyone know the OEM ZLE (ZL1 1LE) sway bar rates? I've searched but couldn't find that information anywhere

[TheRealJA105]

ZLE (FEA) front bar is softer than FE3 front bar. I never updated my thread because of all the haters in here. I ended up running FE4 front bar with the FEA rear bar on full stiff. I never got an FE4 rear bar to compare to the FEA because the FEA rear was stiffer than the FE3 rear.
Now I run BMR adjustables, mid stiff front, full stiff rear. Definitely improved turn in and oversteerability with each change. I really like the stiff BMR bars for my driving style and my lap times showed.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

ZLE (FEA) front bar is softer than FE3 front bar. I never updated my thread because of all the haters in here. I ended up running FE4 front bar with the FEA rear bar on full stiff. I never got an FE4 rear bar to compare to the FEA because the FEA rear was stiffer than the FE3 rear.
Now I run BMR adjustables, mid stiff front, full stiff rear. Definitely improved turn in and oversteerability with each change. I really like the stiff BMR bars for my driving style and my lap times showed.

How do you know it was stiffer FEA vs FE3 rear? Did you measure it or just figure it from trying it on car?

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by Mountain

How do you know it was stiffer FEA vs FE3 rear? Did you measure it or just figure it from trying it on car?

Weight, diameter, distance to mounting hole. I believe you and I were PMing about the bars and you were going to give me info on the FE4 rear bar, but I don't think you ever did.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Weight, diameter, distance to mounting hole. I believe you and I were PMing about the bars and you were going to give me info on the FE4 rear bar, but I don't think you ever did.

If that’s the case, it wasn’t intentional... Probably just slipped my mind. Sorry about that! I think that information is already posted on here somewhere...

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...&postcount=124

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

ZLE (FEA) front bar is softer than FE3 front bar. I never updated my thread because of all the haters in here. I ended up running FE4 front bar with the FEA rear bar on full stiff. I never got an FE4 rear bar to compare to the FEA because the FEA rear was stiffer than the FE3 rear.
Now I run BMR adjustables, mid stiff front, full stiff rear. Definitely improved turn in and oversteerability with each change. I really like the stiff BMR bars for my driving style and my lap times showed.

Sorry I am not that familiar with the terminology so which one is which again? I was simply looking for a numerical value to compare ZLE to SS 1LE (assuming ZL1 bars are the same with SS 1LE)

I'm surprised to hear they actually use softer bars on ZLEs..i know the fact the Multimatics are way stiffer and adding those spherical bushings make it even stiffer but still find it interesting they opted for softer bars/stiffer struts method. Knowing they come with much more agressive compound tires and larger sizes

Originally Posted by Mountain

If that’s the case, it wasn’t intentional... Probably just slipped my mind. Sorry about that! I think that information is already posted on here somewhere...

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...&postcount=124

Thanks for the link. I have seen that one too Ryan posted them while ago but afaik those are OEM SS 1LE bars vs aftermarket ones, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Og Neon]

Originally Posted by glamcem

Sorry I am not that familiar with the terminology so which one is which again? I was simply looking for a numerical value to compare ZLE to SS 1LE (assuming ZL1 bars are the same with SS 1LE)

I'm surprised to hear they actually use softer bars on ZLEs..i know the fact the Multimatics are way stiffer and adding those spherical bushings make it even stiffer but still find it interesting they opted for softer bars/stiffer struts method. Knowing they come with much more agressive compound tires and larger sizes


Thanks for the link. I have seen that one too Ryan posted them while ago but afaik those are OEM SS 1LE bars vs aftermarket ones, correct me if I'm wrong.

It kind goes to what has already been said. Sway bar stiffness is a product of spring rates and the whole suspension package as well. If you look at the 5th gens, the Z/28 actually had a softer rear bar then the 1LE.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Og Neon

It kind goes to what has already been said. Sway bar stiffness is a product of spring rates and the whole suspension package as well. If you look at the 5th gens, the Z/28 actually had a softer rear bar then the 1LE.

I'm very aware of how the suspension works and yes in some cases softer rear bar is understandable but this is a completely different car and with a different chassis and suspension geometry so I wouldn't be surprised if it was different. In addition to that, softer sway bars (regardless of the spring rates) results in more body roll and negative impact on turn in and definitely hurts the track performance (especially when you dramatically increased the tire patch and grip).

It's hard to believe we don't have those specs in hand (ZLE bar rates). SS ve SS 1LE rates have been posted but not the ZLE apparently, oh well

[Ventmaster]

https://www.thatgmpartsguy.com/oem-p...JjaCBSZXN1bHRz

They seem to have taken the guess work out of this with this kit.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Ventmaster

https://www.thatgmpartsguy.com/oem-p...JjaCBSZXN1bHRz

They seem to have taken the guess work out of this with this kit.

How so? It doesn't tell us anything about the ZL1 1LE sway bars or rates and I already have an SS 1LE

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by glamcem

Sorry I am not that familiar with the terminology so which one is which again? I was simply looking for a numerical value to compare ZLE to SS 1LE (assuming ZL1 bars are the same with SS 1LE)

I'm surprised to hear they actually use softer bars on ZLEs..i know the fact the Multimatics are way stiffer and adding those spherical bushings make it even stiffer but still find it interesting they opted for softer bars/stiffer struts method. Knowing they come with much more agressive compound tires and larger sizes


Thanks for the link. I have seen that one too Ryan posted them while ago but afaik those are OEM SS 1LE bars vs aftermarket ones, correct me if I'm wrong.

FEA = ZLE
FE4 = ZL1 & SS1LE
FE3 = SS

Originally Posted by Mountain

If that’s the case, it wasn’t intentional... Probably just slipped my mind. Sorry about that! I think that information is already posted on here somewhere...
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...&postcount=124

I was asking you for dimensions and weight. Ryan's thread has the bar diameters and end thicknesses, but was lacking weights and moment arm lengths from the bushings to the end link holes. (he does mention the moment are lengths though) Not saying his measurements of the ends then dividing by 2 for the wall thickness is incorrect, but my calculations weren't matching those numbers and it has been said that the FE4 rear bar was solid and not hollow. If that's the case there is no wall thickness and the weight would be substantially higher.