MSD is the worst intake - Page 2

easttxss · 09-11-2023, 02:13 PM

Mark the location of the bolt head to the intake, so that you can tell if it has backed off. If it hasn't moved since the last time you touched it and it still loosens up then the plastic is deforming or the threaded inserts are slowly pulling through the plastic.

Ventmaster · 09-11-2023, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokedad

In regards to the torque wrench. I can’t recall what the brand is but it wasn’t crazy expensive if I remember around $80-$100. The only issue is they were loosening up from GPI as well. I don’t think they would have used a cheap torque wrench and not done it correctly. But is a valid question. Maybe I will borrow someone’s torque wrench just to see what happens. I don’t have much to loose trying that. Thanks again for the help

Hey we've all been in the "brokedad" boat in one version or another at some time. If you can't find something to borrow, Amazon has the one I mentioned for $60 new. it's 10-150 in-lb. You want a narrower working range for accuracy and all torque wrenches are most accurate in their mid-range.

Ventmaster · 09-11-2023, 07:48 PM

Last word- I've never had another moments trouble with the MSD and mounted a un-ported 95mm TB in front with a Soler Performance 95-103 adaptor to merge the two. Car runs like a scalded dog and idles like a Singer sewing machine. Good luck!

MeanGreen1LE · 09-12-2023, 07:29 AM

I’ve been on a 5 yr nightmare journey with my car and my hci install; basically have decided my car hates me but the msd has been part of the equation. It’s absolute crap and I have random vacuum leaks I’m pretty sure. It is warped because one of the perimeter bolts you can spin the washer after a heat cycle or two but it still shows correct torque. Previously I have smoked it and didn’t see any leaks but sometimes it seems to seal fine. Took it part anyways and bought new gasket and added rtv. Ran really good for first couple logs now running bad again. Lean at idle to 2k. Boggy down low and some rev hang. Found several perimeter bolts under torque spec and a couple manifold to head bolts. It does not look square against the intake ports when you look at the number two runner you can see from the front as in the inside has more space. Noticed I have oil on intake side of head again too. Going to make a post about that soon.

Dynamical · 09-12-2023, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeanGreen1LE

I’ve been on a 5 yr nightmare journey with my car and my hci install; basically have decided my car hates me but the msd has been part of the equation. It’s absolute crap and I have random vacuum leaks I’m pretty sure. It is warped because one of the perimeter bolts you can spin the washer after a heat cycle or two but it still shows correct torque. Previously I have smoked it and didn’t see any leaks but sometimes it seems to seal fine. Took it part anyways and bought new gasket and added rtv. Ran really good for first couple logs now running bad again. Lean at idle to 2k. Boggy down low and some rev hang. Found several perimeter bolts under torque spec and a couple manifold to head bolts. It does not look square against the intake ports when you look at the number two runner you can see from the front as in the inside has more space. Noticed I have oil on intake side of head again too. Going to make a post about that soon.

Interesting. I know my experience is not MSD but I had a FAST intake on a head cam ls1 car and it had some weird idle/surging issues. I don't remember the numbers but when we pressure tested the intake it was shit compared to the factory ls6 intake. So I don't doubt this with the MSD, I hear this all the time about this intake. Because of this I may just do a ported lt2. Would you go to an lt2?

MeanGreen1LE · 09-12-2023, 09:23 AM

I’m considering doing a ported lt2. If that would have been an option way back when I started that’s what I would have done to begin with. Hard to spend another 800$ or so when I’ve got 1700+ in the msd. I’m shifting 7k so I don’t know that I’d miss to much with lt2.

s346k · 09-13-2023, 06:59 AM

might i suggest investing in a smoke machine. i think technical term is automotive smoke leak detector. like this

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07QW...8-0e7e7d413af0

will tell you everything you need to know about potential vacuum leaks. takes <5 minutes to use.

with that being said, i've used 2 different msd manifolds spanning several years and thousands of miles. countless pulls in a 125+ mph car. 0 issues. i am not a fan of holleys quality control but i never had any vacuum leaks.

also if one is using a 95 mm tb & adapter, the adapter pushed the rotofab tube out enough to contact the fan cage on my car. nothing i did would position it correctly.

6spdhyperblue · 09-13-2023, 07:57 AM

I’ve heard of folks sealing the top to the bottom with rtv. That’s what I would do the next time I run the msd.

If youre heads cam, I would try to keep the msd. As you see There’s been quite a few folks successful in sealing it. Maybe some are easier to seal than others but rtv will remove all doubt

MeanGreen1LE · 09-13-2023, 09:06 AM

The little smokers work well, mine did not show a leak that I could see but again I’m not sure mine is constant. I believe mine to be sealed at perimeter but may be leaking at runners themselves from being warped. A perimeter leak would almost definitely be easy to spot with smoke. I actually did rtv it when I had it apart last time. Plus I’m not positive I could see smoke if it was coming from underneath as I still had the intake elbow on. I have the adapter a soler one I believe and I had to use a file on fan shroud to get it to clear correctly.

6spdhyperblue · 09-13-2023, 10:23 AM

Did you try new runner gaskets that seal to the head?

MeanGreen1LE · 09-13-2023, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

Did you try new runner gaskets that seal to the head?

Yes I have
Though I know it’s not typically recommended to use rtv with orings I may try that somehow.

brokedad · 09-16-2023, 11:18 AM

I wonder if it has anything to do with being ported or not being ported. Does modifying the manifold change the way the plastic reacts when in upper temperatures? I did end up buying a snap on torque wrench and I will let you know if there is any difference with the bolts loosening up. I really am considering the BTR manifold as an option. I really have no interest in cutting my hood for a high ram.

Ventmaster · 09-16-2023, 02:37 PM

Well since most or all custom porting is done by hand - not CNC, there's always a chance someone could have a late night or get distracted and we are talking about grinding on pretty soft plastic.
I don't see a guy trashing a $1,200-$1,500 MSD because he had a little slip... but it could happen, and maybe he/she hoped it would be OK.

But I dunno and I'm not casting aspersions on anyone.
I am hoping your new torque wrench will cure the issue!

brokedad · 10-15-2023, 05:28 AM

Been a little bit but quick update. I did buy a snap on torque wrench. I comes with paperwork on each individual torque wrench being tested for accuracy, so I think I am good in regards to accuracy. I applied orange locktight to each bolt. Orange is supposed to be an upgrade from blue and torqued all bolts following the instruction. Went for 30-40 minute drive and all bolts are needing retightened. One thing I forgot to do was mark them to see if the bolts are backing out, or is the gasket compressing. At this point I’m either going high ram or BTR because either way I’m tired off messing with this intake.

09-11-2023, 02:13 PM	#15
easttxss Drives: '16 2SS M6 Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Hughes Springs, TX Posts: 320	Mark the location of the bolt head to the intake, so that you can tell if it has backed off. If it hasn't moved since the last time you touched it and it still loosens up then the plastic is deforming or the threaded inserts are slowly pulling through the plastic. __________________ David '16 2SS M6 black on black, SW long tube full exhaust, NPP, Roto-fab CAI, ported stock TB '16 2SS M6 black w/Metallic black stripes, Kalahari, 6 piston front (totaled 1/22/20) '14 Fusion Titanium 2.0T '83 Jeep Wagoneer

09-13-2023, 06:59 AM	#21
s346k Drives: like an old lady Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: indiana Posts: 2,396	might i suggest investing in a smoke machine. i think technical term is automotive smoke leak detector. like this https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07QW...8-0e7e7d413af0 will tell you everything you need to know about potential vacuum leaks. takes <5 minutes to use. with that being said, i've used 2 different msd manifolds spanning several years and thousands of miles. countless pulls in a 125+ mph car. 0 issues. i am not a fan of holleys quality control but i never had any vacuum leaks. also if one is using a 95 mm tb & adapter, the adapter pushed the rotofab tube out enough to contact the fan cage on my car. nothing i did would position it correctly. __________________ 2016+ camaro: everyone’s first car

09-13-2023, 07:57 AM	#22
6spdhyperblue Drives: 6th gen Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: US Posts: 3,678	I’ve heard of folks sealing the top to the bottom with rtv. That’s what I would do the next time I run the msd. If youre heads cam, I would try to keep the msd. As you see There’s been quite a few folks successful in sealing it. Maybe some are easier to seal than others but rtv will remove all doubt __________________ ‘22 2SS 1LE M6 Summit White - RF, Flexfuel, LT2 intake, 95mm tb, ATI udp, VT ramair, full 28” dragpack - 11.68@122 ‘16 1SS M6 LT2 intake + boltons on DR 11.0@126+ (Sold)

09-13-2023, 10:23 AM	#24
6spdhyperblue Drives: 6th gen Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: US Posts: 3,678	Did you try new runner gaskets that seal to the head? __________________ ‘22 2SS 1LE M6 Summit White - RF, Flexfuel, LT2 intake, 95mm tb, ATI udp, VT ramair, full 28” dragpack - 11.68@122 ‘16 1SS M6 LT2 intake + boltons on DR 11.0@126+ (Sold)

09-11-2023, 07:48 PM	#17
Ventmaster Drives: 2017 1SS 6spd Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Utah Posts: 2,869	Last word- I've never had another moments trouble with the MSD and mounted a un-ported 95mm TB in front with a Soler Performance 95-103 adaptor to merge the two. Car runs like a scalded dog and idles like a Singer sewing machine. Good luck!

09-12-2023, 07:29 AM	#18
MeanGreen1LE Drives: 17 krypton green 1le Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 210	I’ve been on a 5 yr nightmare journey with my car and my hci install; basically have decided my car hates me but the msd has been part of the equation. It’s absolute crap and I have random vacuum leaks I’m pretty sure. It is warped because one of the perimeter bolts you can spin the washer after a heat cycle or two but it still shows correct torque. Previously I have smoked it and didn’t see any leaks but sometimes it seems to seal fine. Took it part anyways and bought new gasket and added rtv. Ran really good for first couple logs now running bad again. Lean at idle to 2k. Boggy down low and some rev hang. Found several perimeter bolts under torque spec and a couple manifold to head bolts. It does not look square against the intake ports when you look at the number two runner you can see from the front as in the inside has more space. Noticed I have oil on intake side of head again too. Going to make a post about that soon.

09-12-2023, 09:23 AM	#20
MeanGreen1LE Drives: 17 krypton green 1le Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 210	I’m considering doing a ported lt2. If that would have been an option way back when I started that’s what I would have done to begin with. Hard to spend another 800$ or so when I’ve got 1700+ in the msd. I’m shifting 7k so I don’t know that I’d miss to much with lt2.

09-13-2023, 09:06 AM	#23
MeanGreen1LE Drives: 17 krypton green 1le Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 210	The little smokers work well, mine did not show a leak that I could see but again I’m not sure mine is constant. I believe mine to be sealed at perimeter but may be leaking at runners themselves from being warped. A perimeter leak would almost definitely be easy to spot with smoke. I actually did rtv it when I had it apart last time. Plus I’m not positive I could see smoke if it was coming from underneath as I still had the intake elbow on. I have the adapter a soler one I believe and I had to use a file on fan shroud to get it to clear correctly.

09-16-2023, 11:18 AM	#26
brokedad Drives: 2017 Camaro ss Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Omaha Posts: 43	I wonder if it has anything to do with being ported or not being ported. Does modifying the manifold change the way the plastic reacts when in upper temperatures? I did end up buying a snap on torque wrench and I will let you know if there is any difference with the bolts loosening up. I really am considering the BTR manifold as an option. I really have no interest in cutting my hood for a high ram.

09-16-2023, 02:37 PM	#27
Ventmaster Drives: 2017 1SS 6spd Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Utah Posts: 2,869	Well since most or all custom porting is done by hand - not CNC, there's always a chance someone could have a late night or get distracted and we are talking about grinding on pretty soft plastic. I don't see a guy trashing a $1,200-$1,500 MSD because he had a little slip... but it could happen, and maybe he/she hoped it would be OK. But I dunno and I'm not casting aspersions on anyone. I am hoping your new torque wrench will cure the issue!

10-15-2023, 05:28 AM	#28
brokedad Drives: 2017 Camaro ss Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Omaha Posts: 43	Been a little bit but quick update. I did buy a snap on torque wrench. I comes with paperwork on each individual torque wrench being tested for accuracy, so I think I am good in regards to accuracy. I applied orange locktight to each bolt. Orange is supposed to be an upgrade from blue and torqued all bolts following the instruction. Went for 30-40 minute drive and all bolts are needing retightened. One thing I forgot to do was mark them to see if the bolts are backing out, or is the gasket compressing. At this point I’m either going high ram or BTR because either way I’m tired off messing with this intake.

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