[truth411]

Originally Posted by thePill

I agree with everything above although, a solid pushrod is going to bend or break which is why hydraulic lifters were used in the first place... and, are you going to pull the engine to do the cam swap or remove the radiator and hope the grille, rad support or front fascia isn't going to get in the way?

Cheaper? sure, even though the LS3 and Coyote are about the same price out of the box.. My cams are more expensive, for now... but now that I think about it, changing cams isn't really as critical in a DOHC as they were in OHVs. All of the current 9 and 10 second 5.0s are on stock cams.

I know there are overseas taxes however, OHCs were used far before the the official formation of the European Union in 1993. Without the EU, there was NO Euro 1, 2, 3 or 4 standards. I do believe that 20,000rpm is excessive, but it does go to show you how much farther a OHC can go without mechanical limitations... The power band on a 20k 400hp engine would be nearly flat. On the other hand, a 10k 400hp engine would have weak points (beginning and end) especially if the valves were floating at higher RPM.

and you talk about less weight, the Coyote weighs 429lbs and has TiVCT, 4 extra cams, 2 timing chains, 2 extra quarts of oil and a larger oil pan. The LS3 weighs 418lbs... The LS3 is also a 3rd Gen LS series engine, the Coyote is a 1st Gen design... Who's to say that Coyote 2 won't be 450hp, 420tq?.. What about Coyote 3 when PTWA liners come in and save another 8lbs and increase output by another 8hp/tq? The LS series engines are at the same point in its life as the SRA is, both doing well, but won't survive another generation.

LOL keep telling yourself that, the LS3 IS old and about to disappear in 2 years. It's all speculation, but I'm being told that the Gen V V8s blow away their N.A. DOHC V8 counter parts, who knows what Gen VI will bring (at least H.C.C.I.). In any case its clear that OHV V8s will be apart of GM's V8s for the foreseeable future.

[ViperTomcat]

Alot of people are talking about the Fifth generation V8's out of GM. Yes, they are very impressive on paper and in speculation, but thats all they are to the general public.

Everyone has "heard" this and that from so-and-so about how awesome XYZ is going to be, but in reality the people who know arent telling, NDA's ensure that.

[Txmxracer]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

Alot of people are talking about the Fifth generation V8's out of GM. Yes, they are very impressive on paper and in speculation, but thats all they are to the general public.

Everyone has "heard" this and that from so-and-so about how awesome XYZ is going to be, but in reality the people who know arent telling, NDA's ensure that.

Same thing goes for the next GT500. People are "hearing" that it is going to have 620 horses and run the Ring in 7:30 seconds, but no one knows for certain.

[syr74]

As for pushrods vs DOHC, I happen to like both and IMO each has actual advantages.

I like the DOHC/4-valve design because it allows for greater valve area (high airflow and without klling velocity....score), great peak power numbers, and it also solves the valve float problem pushrod engines exhibit which don't require 20,000 rpms to appear.

I like the pushrod because it's compact, naturally torquey, and relatively inexpensive.

I don't expect either to become obsolete anytime soon unless the government gets really stupid with emissions requirements which could hurt the pushrod design more. And to be honest, if that happens, the horsepower wars are very much over anyway.

[JUISSD]

Originally Posted by thePill

Most professional jobs pull the engine, backyard jobs pull the radiator.. either way, I will be almost done before you take your intake off.... It also depends on the car...

I agree with a lot of what you say, but what the hell are you talking about here? I don't know ANYone that yanks the entire engine to do a cam swap on an LS engine. It's a fairly simple process and it doesn't take as long as a DOHC engine does. 4 cams and at least twice of everything else to swap.

BTW, have you swapped cams in the new 5.0 or even seen it done? It's a total bitch to do with all the added valve timing stuff to deal with on top of it.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by JUISSD

I agree with a lot of what you say, but what the hell are you talking about here? I don't know ANYone that yanks the entire engine to do a cam swap on an LS engine. It's a fairly simple process and it doesn't take as long as a DOHC engine does. 4 cams and at least twice of everything else to swap.

BTW, have you swapped cams in the new 5.0 or even seen it done? It's a total bitch to do with all the added valve timing stuff to deal with on top of it.

Depends on the car, on an LS3 Vette, I would drop the cradle so I didn't have to mess with the rack. Pulling the engine makes life easier and there are not many professional garages that will do the swap with the engine in (labor cost quoted for 15-20 hours of work but, it is actually much easier). From what I see, most guys can do a cam swap on an LS3 in 6-8 hours, the Vette (example) is faster if you drop the cradle. I have heard 5.0 guys doing a full swap in 2-3 hours with the Stage II Comp Cam without a valve spring swap (4 hours recommended time with phasers), 4.6 3 valve swap in about 3-4. The timing chain lock/cam timing lock/timing suppressor helps make timing easier...

If I have a cherry picker, I would pull the engine for anything below the heads... save your back and your knuckles... Now that I think of it, there is usually some head work to go with a cam (springs).

Anyway, back on topic... waiting on some updated engine info for the new 5.8 and the 5.0. There is also word on a smaller V6 Ford is working on to replace the 3.7. A 2.5 to 3.0 compact Ecoboost, 300+hp, 300+tq, 35+mpg... insane...

An Ecoboost 2.5, 5.0 and a TVS 5.8 is a nice spread for the next generation...

Originally Posted by Txmxracer

Same thing goes for the next GT500. People are "hearing" that it is going to have 620 horses and run the Ring in 7:30 seconds, but no one knows for certain.

The stock GT500 will not run the ring in 7:30, the test car may have but that was with a full roll cage and god knows what else. That perticular car was almost as fast as the ZR1 through some sections, I highly doubt it could reproduce those times without the major modifications done to stiffen the chassis. If Ford does release such a time, it will be BS and will only be to distance itself from other cars on that list.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by thePill

Depends on the car, on an LS3 Vette, I would drop the cradle so I didn't have to mess with the rack. Pulling the engine makes life easier and there are not many professional garages that will do the swap with the engine in (labor cost quoted for 15-20 hours of work but, it is actually much easier). From what I see, most guys can do a cam swap on an LS3 in 6-8 hours, the Vette (example) is faster if you drop the cradle. I have heard 5.0 guys doing a full swap in 2-3 hours with the Stage II Comp Cam without a valve spring swap (4 hours recommended time with phasers), 4.6 3 valve swap in about 3-4. The timing chain lock/cam timing lock/timing suppressor helps make timing easier...

t.

you like comparing facts against heresay.. it takes X amount of time to do a cam swap in an ls engine, and "have heard of" time with a 5.0. i'm sure there are guys that do ls cam swaps in 3-4 hours as well when you do alot of them. hell there were several times i have had the cam out of a first gen small block in one hour in vehicle. you just have to know the procedure. you're retarded if you think you can have the cams out of a 5.0 in vehicle "before you even get the intake off" of an ls.

[Blue Maro Demon]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

Get into the real world and watch drag racing, get into the pits and staging lanes. I have, and let me tell you this honest truth I have seen both Camaros and Mustangs win and never ONCE in the REAL WORLD have I seen a Mustang with a GM engine or a Camaro with a Ford engine.

Most of the stuff on TV is crap, if you havent been in pits, wandered staging lanes and actually raced you are in no position to talk about the "real world" of drag racing.

LOL Where do you get your stuff at??? LOL Your making me die from laughter!!! You say you have been to drag races BUT have never seen a Mustang with a Chevrolet engine in it? LOL HAHAHAHA! I was just at a drag race a couple weeks ago that had a 4th gen Mustang with a Bowtie painted on its side and a bowtie that replaced the Mustang emblem on the front and you say its not in the real world and only made for tv??? Obviously you dont get out much or go to very many different drag races. I have wandered many many pits and staging lanes and have the pictures to prove it. I also have a drag car in the garage along with my Camaro. Where do you come off with your stuff? Fantasy land?

[c_LoW29]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

LOL Where do you get your stuff at??? LOL Your making me die from laughter!!! You say you have been to drag races BUT have never seen a Mustang with a Chevrolet engine in it? LOL HAHAHAHA! I was just at a drag race a couple weeks ago that had a 4th gen Mustang with a Bowtie painted on its side and a bowtie that replaced the Mustang emblem on the front and you say its not in the real world and only made for tv??? Obviously you dont get out much or go to very many different drag races. I have wandered many many pits and staging lanes and have the pictures to prove it. I also have a drag car in the garage along with my Camaro. Where do you come off with your stuff? Fantasy land?

Shoot they put LS motors in Datsun 240 and 260z's all the time. Even in s2000's the possibilities are endless.

[Txmxracer]

I used to go to drag races a lot too. There are some other makes with LS engines going down the strip. Its not the normal thing to see, but it does happen more than some may think.

[syr74]

Prevalence of cross-breed engine swaps, domestic to domestic, seem to vary a lot by region, era, and type. Right now we are seeing a lot of LS series smallblock engine swaps, relatively speaking, because those engines are small, plentiful, make good power, have good aftermarket support and are easy to work on. When I see a domestic to domestic swap with one of these the car tends to either be a fox body Mustang or an old school street rod. Neither surprises me.

The Fox body chassis gets the nod here for the same reason the LS engine did, it's small, light, plentiful, has a good aftermarket, and is easy to work. In fact, I've seen more Fox body LS swaps than 3rd gen F-body LS swaps which, again, doesn't surprise me because the aftermarket is better for the Fox body chassis. The only downside I see for folks who do this is resale. In my experience a swap like an LS1/LS3 V-8 into a 87 Mustang LX is going to have a difficult time drawing much money if the owners ever needs to sell it because the market for people who want such a thing is, ot surprisingly, somewhat limited.

A 87 Monte Carlo with a LS3 or a 91 GT with a Coyote is going to be a lot easier to sell down the road and you'll almost always get a good deal more money for it relative to what you have in it. For folks who plan on keeping the car, or who are more likely to part everything out when they lose interest, this doesn't really matter. That said, I have seen some folks who ended up surprised at how hard it is too sell a Ford with a Chevy in it or, believe it, a Chevy with a Ford in it.

The exception to the above are the old school street rodders. Chevy motors in Ford cars are common in that hobby, and they aren't especially difficult to sell although like make motor and body does tend to bring more of a premium than it used to in my experience.

Foreign cars with American engine swaps seem to be treated differently altogether. While purists cringe almost nobody else seems to mind a S2000 with an LS3 in it or an other wise perfect MGB with a 302.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by big hammer

you like comparing facts against heresay.. it takes X amount of time to do a cam swap in an ls engine, and "have heard of" time with a 5.0. i'm sure there are guys that do ls cam swaps in 3-4 hours as well when you do alot of them. hell there were several times i have had the cam out of a first gen small block in one hour in vehicle. you just have to know the procedure. you're retarded if you think you can have the cams out of a 5.0 in vehicle "before you even get the intake off" of an ls.

I like comparing what a manufacturer suggest the required time of installation is. In this case, it takes twice as long for an LS cam. I also like to talk to those that actually do these jobs for a living and use that as a comparison. From now on though, I will just ask you since what you say on this thread isn't classified as hearsay but as fact. I will sleep better now that I know the people making the parts and working on these cars don't know what they are doing. I find it interesting that a skilled C6 shop can change a cam in about 8 hours but you somehow have decreased that time dramatically .

This is entertaining....

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by thePill

I like comparing what a manufacturer suggest the required time of installation is. In this case, it takes twice as long for an LS cam. I also like to talk to those that actually do these jobs for a living and use that as a comparison. From now on though, I will just ask you since what you say on this thread isn't classified as hearsay but as fact. I will sleep better now that I know the people making the parts and working on these cars don't know what they are doing. I find it interesting that a skilled C6 shop can change a cam in about 8 hours but you somehow have decreased that time dramatically .

This is entertaining....

There is a difference between just doing a job and doing the job right. In my experience, some of the same people that brag about how quickly they can get something done are the same ones who encounter unexpected issues down the road.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by tooslow

There is a difference between just doing a job and doing the job right. In my experience, some of the same people that brag about how quickly they can get something done are the same ones who encounter unexpected issues down the road.

Qouted for truth... Something my grandfather always said (almost verbatim)...