[gameovergt]

as a muscle car enthusiast, I don't want any one brand to not sell. Competition breeds improvement.

[Mikey LikesIt]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

You must be mistaking them for the 5th gens then, which happens. I see a good average of 5 a day now in the southbay, sometimes more.

No, I know the difference.

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by detltu

I think some of the things i have underlined are what rub people the wrong way. It's not a fact that the car is a sales disaster. Some people have pointed that out to you and others and that seems to go against the narrative. It's a fact that it's not selling as well as the mustang or 5th gen and has even struggled to keep up with the Challenger. These are not good things but they don't equal sales disaster. If the sales are enough that the Camaro is profitable (and we don't really know that) then it is not a sales disaster. Slightly profitable doesn't mean sales are sufficient and everyone is happy. I get that. I personally like he 5th gen volumes. Lower level cars are abundant and the higher trim cars are still rare.

The ATS and CTS sales are much more troubling.

Another thought, and I could be way off base here, but you know the Camaro is maybe not looking at Mustang (as much) anymore as it's main competitor. Certainly we are, but maybe they have positioned the Camaro to as they say with the ZL1 go against "... everyone".

They have put a slight premium on the car vs the Mustang, although when you break down the components some are optional on the Mustang, but some you can't get.

One thing for sure, at least at the SS level, performance wise, Camaro is the clear winner.

Should we start comparing sales vs. M2, M3, M4 (didn't R&T do a head to head on vs the M4, and Camaro at half the price was the winner?)

Anyone know what M4 sales are like in the US?

Lets just wait until all those envious stang drivers get out of their leases and come over to the rebel side!

[shaffe]

They can try/say move it up market all they want. Camaro and Mustang will always be lumped together.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by shaffe

They can try/say move it up market all they want. Camaro and Mustang will always be lumped together.

I'm sure someone thought the same about the Thunderbird and Corvette at one time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Doc]

To date I've seen three 6th gens; a black hardtop, a black convertible and a yellow SS. I don't care how you spin it or defend it; the folks at GM have to be paying attention to the sales numbers. I don't see how they're not worried. Even taking out the low-profit rental car sales, which frankly are fine with me, the numbers are still lower than I think anyone expected. The July figures should be out soon. We'll see what effect steep discounts and 0% financing have on sales. They will go up, they always do when those kinds of incentives are available, but it remains to be seen if it's significant or not. If the only way to appreciably increase sales is through incentives like that, that's telling in and of itself. If the Mustang still outsells the Camaro even with the incentives, that's a whole new situation to study and think about.

I completely agree with Number 3's view of the future and future generations. As sad as it is, it does appear to be going in that direction. I find it suspiciously weird that it seems EVERY manufacturer everywhere in the world 'suddenly' is rolling out self-driving vehicles of every kind; even trucks and buses. What did they do, all get together at a conference a few years ago and decide this is what they were all going to spend billions on? Something nobody was asking for? What is the real purpose behind this? Seems odd when the infrastructure isn't set up for it at all. In order for it to work the infrastructures of the world have to be modified. How and when does that happen? Who's going to pay for it? What's next; politically correct bullying like what's going on with global freezing, er... global warming, er... 'climate change' or whatever they're calling it now? Bullying to force people into 'accepting' this 'new vision' of the future that the automotive world seems to all be working to shove down our throats whether we want it or not? Politicians HAVE to be in collusion with this; it literally reeks of their mentality. Will we have new taxes/fees/charges added to pay for all this? Maybe I'm just getting old, but this New World Disorder they're trying to create is not at all inviting or appealing.

If GM wants to take the Camaro upscale, which so far seems to be the case, that's fine. It basically becomes the 4 seat version of the vette. Nothing wrong with that, but I would like (hope) to see something new from them in the very low $20k price range to fit the market segment the Camaro used to fit in. Something new that's high on style, low to moderate performance, low to moderate price. Resist the impulse to load it up; keep it simple, fun and affordable. If they want to move the Camaro brand upscale, fine; just give the new model a new name. Personally I think that would be a much better use of billions than trying to develop self-driving vehicles.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

They can try/say move it up market all they want. Camaro and Mustang will always be lumped together.

Yet that's what GM has chosen to do. Having delivered a car that eclipses the Mustang is step one. Getting that reality to sink in will take time. To say the least.

SS destroys the GT. If/when the 1LE runs with the Z/28 and surpasses the GT350TP, strong step two for building the brand image. Then, what the hell will the ZL1 do!

These cars, in reality, aren't lumped together

[90503]

June 2016 Camaro Sales Figures (and vs. Mustang & Challenger)


Jun 2016 Delivery (sales) Stats:

Camaro Jun 2016 Deliveries (actual sales): 4,969 -43% (Pr Ye)

Compared to Competition:

Mustang Jun 2016 Delivery (sales):9,776 -17% (Pr Ye)
Challenger Jun 2016 Delivery (sales):5,479 -20% (Pr Ye)

************************************************** ********************

I'm gonna guess what the numbers will be like for July sales...

Mustang: 8K.....(They gotta come out of the stratosphere sometime...lol...)

Challenger: 6K....Their advertising campaigns are serving them well

Camaro: 5K...a small bump perhaps from incentives, but still not a doomsday scenario, nor a reason for celebrating....lol


With SUV and trucks experiencing great sales, I think it's partly a case of folks choosing to spend their money (much more money in most cases) for these types of vehicles instead of on two-door performance cars....

Still way too early to panic about the Camaro coming to an end, IMO....

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Yet that's what GM has chosen to do. Having delivered a car that eclipses the Mustang is step one. Getting that reality to sink in will take time. To say the least.

SS destroys the GT. If/when the 1LE runs with the Z/28 and surpasses the GT350TP, strong step two for building the brand image. Then, what the hell will the ZL1 do!

These cars, in reality, aren't lumped together

Yes performance wise the camaro outshines the Mustang. Yes if/when the 1LE puts up impressive numbers it will help build the brands performance image even more. There are only a certain % of buyers/potential buyers that will care about that though.

[90503]

I would agree that there is some validity to thinking the Camaro has gone "up-market", particularly with no bare-bones LS models being offered. Certainly they would have realized this would bring down over-all sales numbers.

Sticking with performance and more content as standard is what makes the Camaro unique in their line-up....There is always the formula that Chevy has to avoid competing with their own other model lines, as well as GM's other makes....I think they are doing it right with the Camaro. Change it into a generic like every other car, and all you'll have is more of the same of what is offered in other GM lines...

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yes performance wise the camaro outshines the Mustang. Yes if/when the 1LE puts up impressive numbers it will help build the brands performance image even more. There are only a certain % of buyers/potential buyers that will care about that though.

Yet that is what it appears GM has chosen to do. I'm not defending it or saying it's wise. I've no idea.

If they wanted to pump up the volume they could roll out stripped trim levels but they haven't. No piles of cash on the hood either.

The Vette going mid-engine with higher price with Camaro filling the budget sports car role makes the most sense to me.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Yet that is what it appears GM has chosen to do. I'm not defending it or saying it's wise. I've no idea.

If they wanted to pump up the volume they could roll out stripped trim levels but they haven't. No piles of cash on the hood either.

The Vette going mid-engine with higher price with Camaro filling the budget sports car role makes the most sense to me.

I see what you are saying but that seems like quite the dangerous gamble to me.

If the vette does indeed jump in price with mid engine and they expect the camaro to fill that slot the corvette had what fills the void the camaro will leave?

Again I am not saying Camaro needs to hit the Mustang levels of volume. I want to know why the 6th Gen, a car that is superior in every way to the 5th gen, has had consecutive months of DECLINING sales. And not just a little decline, June was a 43% decline? May was 40% decline

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

I'm sure someone thought the same about the Thunderbird and Corvette at one time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

OK but Corvette didn't move beyond it's class and up the market, the T-bird became a 4 seater and moved down.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I see what you are saying but that seems like quite the dangerous gamble to me.

If the vette does indeed jump in price with mid engine and they expect the camaro to fill that slot the corvette had what fills the void the camaro will leave?

Again I am not saying Camaro needs to hit the Mustang levels of volume. I want to know why the 6th Gen, a car that is superior in every way to the 5th gen, has had consecutive months of DECLINING sales. And not just a little decline, June was a 43% decline? May was 40% decline

Higher entry cost and past conditioning of buyer to wait for the deal

I want to know if Ford is going to up their performance to catch up and will that impact the Mustang's entry cost.