[Baywire]

Originally Posted by Jeb114

GM as a whole has to do something

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/01/m...s-ford-fca-gm/

This topic has been covered in the May Sales thread quite a bit

We all came to the conclusion that GM is going with a new method of profit.

Lower Units Higher Profits.

If Ford only makes 1K on each of their sales and doubles Chevy sales but Chevy is making 2k on their cars then the profits are even.

That being said I don't believe that's what GM should be shooting for but I think as Cadillac is going after the German competitors I think GM is trying to step up all of their brands which for fans is good and bad. Good because the product is better, bad because now we actually have to pay for it.

As for FCA, their problem is performance for a price. The Dodge Dart should have been looking to strike at Golf-GTI/Fiesta-Fiesta ST market and was severely down in performance and quality. As for the 200, it should have been aiming at the entry level luxury like A4/328i/is250/c-250 and couldn't compete for a number of reasons most of which just being outclassed in quality. (My opinion is that Chrysler is the Buick of FCA and should be aiming at the entry level luxury brands, instead of being Buick (which should be taken apart) it should try to be Cadillac)

[Marine Corps]

GM produces vehicles in 37 countries under thirteen brands including Buick, Chevrolet, Cadillac, and GMC. They spent several years and billions of dollars researching and designing the new 6th generation Camaro which right out of the gate was awarded Motor Trend's Car of Year Award. Don't you think GM took into account the retail price of the Camaro before it was introduced? Anticipating the public's reaction to all aspects of the car. I kind of doubt GM will introduce a Vega-camaro anytime soon.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by Marine Corps

GM produces vehicles in 37 countries under thirteen brands including Buick, Chevrolet, Cadillac, and GMC. They spent several years and billions of dollars researching and designing the new 6th generation Camaro which right out of the gate was awarded Motor Trend's Car of Year Award. Don't you think GM took into account the retail price of the Camaro before it was introduced? Anticipating the public's reaction to all aspects of the car. I kind of doubt GM will introduce a Vega-camaro anytime soon.

If the 6th Gen cost billions, GM has a problem. 5th gen cost 500 million.

[raptor5244]

I vote for a Chevy Cruze SS, 2.0T with 275hp, 295tq. and sport suspension and wheel and tire package. Cruze comes in manual and auto already. $26k msrp.

It could compete with Civic SI, Golf GTI, Subaru WRX, Ford Focus and Fiesta ST, Dodge Dart GT, etc.

[Waiting46]

Hasn't GM kind of implied they aren't getting in to the hot-hatch segment?

[DeliveryMan]

Originally Posted by Doc

With the new pricing, a base 1LT with V6 and auto trans (no extras of any kind) will be $31k+ including sales tax. That means the Camaro has now been pretty much priced out of the range of entry-level buyers.

This is not a diss on the Camaro; it is what it is and it offers tremendous value for the price, but I'm thinking GM needs to go back to its roots and come out with a new model performance car. A "younger brother" to the Camaro that starts at around $18,950 with a 4 cyl engine and maxed out with a V6 would be about $23k + tax. It should be sporty but not a track car like the Camaro is.

Its target market would be those who like to look like high performance; they wear the t-shirts, jackets and caps, but are not and will never be high performance drivers. They just want the styling and looks. This is also the perfect entry-level buyer who later on may want to upgrade which brings them into the Camaro realm. But for a lot of customers they just want to look sporty and would use this car to have fun around town, daily driver, take trips, etc. This would be a perfect first new car for high school students or a second/third car for families.

The foreign car companies already hit this target market, but with the Camaro now priced out of reach of this market I think it would be good for GM to use their formidable prowess to develop a competing car that could be a good way for new buyers to enter into becoming Chevrolet performance customers.

I'm thinking they could revive the Corvair name or come up with an alternate that sounds sporty. Take a transverse front wheel drive 4 or 6 and move that to the rear wheels. Give it great styling and aerodynamics in the front. A 4 seater without a lot of bells and whistles; a reasonably basic sporty car with plenty of room for customization later on by the customer if they choose to do so. Make it fun, make it affordable, make it sporty and stylish like a younger brother of the Camaro.

What do you guys think? Yes? No? Maybe?

YES.
Even the 2.0 Turbo Camaro with some options is a bit much for some entry level buyers, and there is nothing wrong with that.
But GM needs a 2.0 turbo option for the Cruze.
Where I disagree with you is that the entry level car with a V6 option. V6's are no longer a cheaper option. The V6 is now a premium engine in most models that it is available in. Which btw is offered less and less with turbo 4's putting up significant power.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I vote for a Chevy Cruze SS, 2.0T with 275hp, 295tq. and sport suspension and wheel and tire package. Cruze comes in manual and auto already. $26k msrp.

It could compete with Civic SI, Golf GTI, Subaru WRX, Ford Focus and Fiesta ST, Dodge Dart GT, etc.

Originally Posted by Waiting46

Hasn't GM kind of implied they aren't getting in to the hot-hatch segment?

I said this several times in this thread. The hot hatch segment is the new pony car segment IMO. and GM needs a competitor to the Fiesta ST and Focus ST. Everyone I have talked to that owns one of those cars, says they are some of the most fun to drive cars.

[DeliveryMan]

Here's the deal, the Buick Verano is going away which can possibly open up the door for a 2.0 LTG Turbo option on the Cruze Sedan or the hatch.
That would be the entry level tuner/performance car option if done.

There will not be any RWD coupe slotted below the Camaro.
The most you will get is a FWD sedan or Hatch with the LTG engine.

Those on here talking about an entry level RWD coupe slotted below the Camaro are dreaming...what platform is it going to be on? how many are they going to sell? the coupe unfortunately is a dying breed (and that kills me), but the truth hurts.

Those mentioning a roadster? look at the sales of the Mazda MX5 Miata, it does "ok" but it is not great. The market for the roadster is very minimal.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by DeliveryMan

Here's the deal, the Buick Verano is going away which can possibly open up the door for a 2.0 LTG Turbo option on the Cruze Sedan or the hatch.
That would be the entry level tuner/performance car option if done.

There will not be any RWD coupe slotted below the Camaro.
The most you will get is a FWD sedan or Hatch with the LTG engine.

Those on here talking about an entry level RWD coupe slotted below the Camaro are dreaming...what platform is it going to be on? how many are they going to sell? the coupe unfortunately is a dying breed (and that kills me), but the truth hurts.

Those mentioning a roadster? look at the sales of the Mazda MX5 Miata, it does "ok" but it is not great. The market for the roadster is very minimal.

Yep, the Miata is a great roadster but they average less than a 1000 units per month in sales. I am glad Mazda still makes that fun little car.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by DeliveryMan

Those mentioning a roadster? look at the sales of the Mazda MX5 Miata, it does "ok" but it is not great. The market for the roadster is very minimal.

Last time GM put out a roadster, it competed very well against the Miata. If we count the Solstice and Sky, they outsold the Miata in 2006-2009, Solstice did it by itself in 2006 and 2007. It would all depend if GM was able to make them profitable at a reasonable price point.

[Lukemo]

Originally Posted by shaffe

GM needs a competitor to the Fiesta ST and Focus ST. Everyone I have talked to that owns one of those cars, says they are some of the most fun to drive cars.

YES. Cruze SS hatch, 2.0T, beefy suspension, nice tires, AWD option. It would be perfect competition for the Focus ST.

Same with the Sonic. Pump up the 1.4T and redesign the suspension, call it a Sonic SS... you've got a Fiesta ST fighter.

Why wouldn't GM do this...?

[Baywire]

Originally Posted by Lukemo

YES. Cruze SS hatch, 2.0T, beefy suspension, nice tires, AWD option. It would be perfect competition for the Focus ST.

Same with the Sonic. Pump up the 1.4T and redesign the suspension, call it a Sonic SS... you've got a Fiesta ST fighter.

Why wouldn't GM do this...?

Because GM would have to put money into the investment and wouldn't see profits in a short enough window.

Personally car companies (GM specifically) need to get over this fear of spending money on R&D and just do it. Everyone is moving from FWD to AWD, Cadillac as an AWD powerplant for sedans but GM refuses to expand it into other branches. There's no reason a Cruze SS/LTZ or whatever can't have the LTG and be AWD. The Cruze has the same dimensions as the ATS which houses that exact powerplant.

I think GM assumes if they make something, they have to sell 5000 of them a month or it's pointless. No, make it a special order thing, make sure each dealership has one or two on their lots. Advertise for it, make people want to want it.

It's actually quite humorous because the extremely large pool of money is right there except GM is too scared to dip its feet in and start using AWD and FI.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Posaune

Wonder if it could be tied to the Opel GT concept we saw a few months ago and the rumored RWD Sub-ATS/CT1/CT2?

This little Opel has a lot of potential, depending on the price point. If they decide to compete with the Miata and start it at $25k well...not good.

As to some of the others talking about the Miata, I think the decline in sales numbers are directly related to the price increases. The base model with DFC starts at $26k. Start getting any kind of upgrades and you're quickly pushing $30k, so suddenly you have a car payment pushing $600 a month. It also has the burden of being a 2-seater sports car, which is the worst category for insurance, so that too adds to the payment.

If they bring that little Opel in starting at $20,990 I think they'd have a sales winner.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by Baywire

Personally car companies (GM specifically) need to get over this fear of spending money on R&D and just do it. Everyone is moving from FWD to AWD, Cadillac as an AWD powerplant for sedans but GM refuses to expand it into other branches. There's no reason a Cruze SS/LTZ or whatever can't have the LTG and be AWD. The Cruze has the same dimensions as the ATS which houses that exact powerplant.

If I'm understanding this correctly, you suggest using the AWD system from the ATS in the Cruze, Correct?

If so, it is not as simple as adapting the ATS AWD system to the Cruze. ATS (alpha platform) is longitudinal front-engine, RWD based, Cruze (D2XX Platform) is transverse front-engine, FWD based. The D2XX based Buick Envision has AWD available which would be easier to adapt to the Cruze but it would still require extensive reengineering since (IIRC) the exhaust routes where the transmission and drive shaft would go.