[dpevans]

Some of you don't really understand the concept of having "employees". The hourly wage is only one part of the total package. The hourly salary minus any taxes paid are what you are free to spend but add in the hidden cost. You are have great health care and part of that are low contributions and low deductible rates. So someone with 10k out of pocket for family that deductible comes right out of your pocket. The company pays in an additional 6% in SS which you will collect down the road, hopefully if you live past 62. You also receive a great pension package compared to most workers. You also collect this down the road. The pension and early retirement package most workers would drool over so when you say it's not in my paycheck you are being shortsighted. these compensation packages are paying for your and your family long term well being. Now is it fair compensation for what you do, I don't really know but when you say your hourly rate is your living wage maybe you need evaluate the total compensation package. Most people would love a 10k bonus around the holiday. People working side by side should be making the same amount of money.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by dpevans

Some of you don't really understand the concept of having "employees". The hourly wage is only one part of the total package. The hourly salary minus any taxes paid are what you are free to spend but add in the hidden cost. You are have great health care and part of that are low contributions and low deductible rates. So someone with 10k out of pocket for family that deductible comes right out of your pocket. The company pays in an additional 6% in SS which you will collect down the road, hopefully if you live past 62. You also receive a great pension package compared to most workers. You also collect this down the road. The pension and early retirement package most workers would drool over so when you say it's not in my paycheck you are being shortsighted. these compensation packages are paying for your and your family long term well being. Now is it fair compensation for what you do, I don't really know but when you say your hourly rate is your living wage maybe you need evaluate the total compensation package. Most people would love a 10k bonus around the holiday. People working side by side should be making the same amount of money.

Again no one here is denying that the benefits that the company provides on top of your hourly salary isn’t free and costs them money. It’s a part of an employees compensation package. But it’s a matter of lumping it into the HOURLY wages is the issue I have. They are paid $30/hr plus health and benefits. Simple as that, not $60/hr.

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

What shows on your W2? That’s your income. That comes from your hourly wage. Does the W2 reflect the benefits the company pays? No so therefore these workers do not earn $60/hr. Now to the company what each employee costs them may be an equivalent to paying them $60/hr, but when it comes to saying what an employee earns, it’s their income straight and simple. It’s always been described as I make $30/hr plus health and benefits. I have never heard of anyone say they make $60/hr and that includes benefits built in. Only times I have heard of including the equivalent wage with the cost of benefits included is in recruitment material to say a potential recruit can make $80,000 first year or in talking points of why a certain group is overpaid because it makes it appear they are making more than they do. It’s deceitful and misleading.

I’m not going to get into the debate of whether the UAW is being greedy or not, whether these people are overpaid, etc. It was just about keeping things honest without using to what I find at least misleading talking points. Want to say $30/hr plus only covering 3% of their healthcare and a good retirement contribution is more than fair compensation for what they do? Fine go at it.

If you work at a grocery store and they owe you $100 dollars and on pay day you get $50 cash and $50 in food, do you say you were ripped off for $50 bucks because there is only $50 in my wallet? Or, did you actually get paid $100? Furthermore, did the grocery store actually do you a favor so you only have to report $50 on your W2?

Bottom line? You twist it any way you want. At the end of the day, YOU pay the same amount on the car that goes towards their wages and perks. It matters not who actually "pays the bill". They get the equivalent of $60/hr. They might not get it in their hand per se, but they get it.

And, you'll eventually pay for the increase they are asking for.

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Again no one here is denying that the benefits that the company provides on top of your hourly salary isn’t free and costs them money. It’s a part of an employees compensation package. But it’s a matter of lumping it into the HOURLY wages is the issue I have. They are paid $30/hr plus health and benefits. Simple as that, not $60/hr.

In this topic about the strike, it is relevant and part of their hourly income as its part of the compensation package of the employee. From your post, it seems you have very little experience in dealing with hiring personal or dealing with the cost of employment.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

In this topic about the strike, it is relevant and part of their hourly income as its part of the compensation package of the employee.

One of the main sticking points of this very strike is healthcare cost. The union wants to keep it at 3% for the employees, and GM wants to make it 28%.

I do not see GM's position as unreasonable. I see the union's as unsustainable.

I mentioned this before: if the union would take the 28% on healthcare I bet GM would be willing to commit to more product being made in the United States.

[Number 3]

Fairly straight forward.

They are paid $30/hour

They cost $60/hour

It used to be well over 70 but the VEBA lowered that among other things

[DenverTaco07]

There's a way to make it easier for employers to NOT have to deal with healthcare planning / shopping and negotiating with providers etc. Imagine, as an employer, NOT having to deal with healthcare, other than maybe kicking in a % like SS.

[Frisbey]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

There's a way to make it easier for employers to NOT have to deal with healthcare planning / shopping and negotiating with providers etc. Imagine, as an employer, NOT having to deal with healthcare, other than maybe kicking in a % like SS.

I’ve been an employer for over 35 years,
It would be a lot easier to just pay a higher wage, and scrap healthcare.

Those just looking at the hourly wage would be very happy, but are short sighted, at least Until you find out you have to pay tax on your medical and dental insurance.
business currently are allowed to supply medical and dental with pre tax dollars, saving the employee their current tax rate, making it a huge benefit for the employee.

As I said before,
You can look at it from an hourly plus benefits standpoint,
But that’s not reality, the entire cost to the business is the real number a business has to budget for.

[6sigma]

GM pays an average of $63/hr currently for all the UAW workers. This includes healthcare and benefits. This is what it costs GM per hour across all ~50k UAW workers on average. GM has a higher hourly labor cost than FCA, Ford, or non-union manufacturers.

Why did the UAW strike GM to demand more money, when they are already the highest paid? Because if they can squeeze GM for more then they will be able to go to Ford and FCA and say you need to raise your package to the same level. In the end, it makes all American UAW manufacturing much more expensive and less competitive than the non-union competition. This is why GM is fighting hard to be able to have some production in Mexico - they need to be able to use that lower cost production to help balance out the high cost US production.

Here is a good article with some data and facts for those interested. This graphic on pay is from that article.

[95 imp]

By that graph, I'm gonna say that the labor cost in '18 was $2500.

@$63/hr, that means you paid a 40 hour work week for your car to be built.

It takes GM an average of 23.09 hours to build a car (all vehicles and sub-assemblies)

A Camaro, start to finish, on the assembly line is 35 minutes each.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by 6sigma

GM pays an average of $63/hr currently for all the UAW workers. This includes healthcare and benefits. This is what it costs GM per hour across all ~50k UAW workers on average. GM has a higher hourly labor cost than FCA, Ford, or non-union manufacturers.

Why did the UAW strike GM to demand more money, when they are already the highest paid? Because if they can squeeze GM for more then they will be able to go to Ford and FCA and say you need to raise your package to the same level. In the end, it makes all American UAW manufacturing much more expensive and less competitive than the non-union competition. This is why GM is fighting hard to be able to have some production in Mexico - they need to be able to use that lower cost production to help balance out the high cost US production.

Here is a good article with some data and facts for those interested. This graphic on pay is from that article.

And the union is striking for more money AND a guarantee all product sold in the United States is built in the United Sates.

That’s why I say the union should give GM healthcare in the negotiations. If they can cut costs somewhere they’d have a better chance at getting product -probably not all but at least some - back in the USA.

[50MileSmile]

Strike is over, if UAW members ratify settlement

Just released by the UAW:

The UAW National Negotiators, elected by their local unions, achieved major wins for UAW-GM members in the Proposed Tentative Agreement.

Detroit – Today, after five weeks of intense negotiations, the UAW GM National Negotiators and UAW GM Vice President Terry Dittes announced the achievement of a Proposed Tentative Agreement with General Motors. The elected national negotiators voted to recommend the UAW GM National Council accept the Proposed Tentative Agreement as the agreement represents major gains for UAW workers.

“The number one priority of the national negotiation team has been to secure a strong and fair contract that our members deserve,” said UAW Vice President Terry Dittes, Director of the UAW GM Department. Out of respect for our members, we will refrain from commenting on the details until the UAW GM leaders gather together and receive all details.

“We are extremely grateful to the thousands of Americans who donated goods and helped our striking workers and their families. As we await the Council’s decision, please know that the outpouring of community and national support will be etched in the memories of all of us at the UAW for years to come,” said Dittes.

“The dignity, grace, and solidarity demonstrated by our members during the last few weeks are prime examples of what this union is all about — supporting one another in the good and bad times and never giving up,” said UAW President Gary Jones. “Our more than 48,000 members standing their ground have captured the hearts and minds of people across this country. I could not be prouder of our brothers and sisters, our National Negotiators, and the National Council as they continue to fight one day longer to secure the best deal for our members,” said Jones.

On September 15, the UAW GM National Council voted to strike. The UAW GM National Council will meet and review details on October 17, 2019 in a private meeting, at which time they will vote on whether to recommend it to the full UAW-GM membership for ratification.

Until the Council reviews and votes to approve the proposed tentative agreement the strike will continue. During the October 17 meeting, the Council will decide whether to continue the strike until ratification concludes or to stop the strike at the time of the Council’s approval of the agreement.

Once the UAW National GM Council votes to approve the proposed tentative agreement, the contract language will become a Tentative Agreement and shared with the full membership.

Ultimately, the agreement will not be ratified until UAW-GM membership across the U.S. votes to approve it.

[Petrol Head]

Good news! Sooner they get back to work the sooner I can order my Camaro!

[Emoto]

Legalized extortion.