[c4racer]

Originally Posted by CamaroCracka

I would buy and electric Vette for 30k.

I would take an EV vette if they paid ME $30K....

[CamaroCracka]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The assumption is absolutely true, lol. You missed an important word IF. And my point was not 90% of the market, but 90% of GM buyers willing to buy EVs at 90% of its current sales volume.

Also, 2019 poll is not really valid. That's today. What will that number be in 2025, 2030 and when GM will be 100% EV in 2035. That's the number that matters.

And as I've said many times, even if 100% of the sales in 2035 are EVs it will take at least 10 to 12 years to get all the ICEs off the road and that will likely not happen. There are 200 million plus cars in the US last number I recall. Replacing them at a regular 17 million per year rate will take a while for sure.

And also, when GM says they will be 100% EV by 2035, nowhere did they suggest at what volumes. GM is consistently and wildly profitable at much lower volumes than in their history. GM has been and will only be about profit. So the only question from a GM side is will they be more profitable at 100% EVs.

And what's missing is the change in the transportation industry. By 2035 what a car is and does and how it's used will likely be very different. ADAS will be far more prevalent. GM already has Level 3 with Super Cruise. By 2035, owning your own car MAY be a lot less common. And EVs are far more suited to a ride hailing conveyance.

Will other companies continue to satisfy the ICE demand when GM exits? That probably will happen. It will be a business opportunity that someone will fill (as long as it's legal). For example you can go to a company called PSI and buy the old GM Mark V Big Block and V6 engines. GM sold them the tooling.

Toyota and Honda have picked up sales when GM stopped producing most of it's sedans and they didn't. But GM now only has Camaro, Corvette, Spark, Malibu CT4 and CT5. 6 cars left. Impala, LaCrosse, Cruise, Aveo, Regal, Verano, Cascada, XTS, CT6, alllll gone. And yet GM is still making a crap ton of money because the market demand changed to SUVs.

And the most important thing, people that come to websites to talk cars are a tiny part of the automotive buying population. And Camaro buyers are a tiny (unfortunately) subset of that. What we think and want in a car is not going to drive the market. It doesn't make GM "stupid" or it's leaders "dumb" as many on this site unfortunately resort to claiming. They just see where the market is heading and we aren't likely to be part of it.

While you are predicting the future, can you tell me where Apple stock will be.

The only accurate statement you made was that if 100% of GM models are EVs, then 100% of their sales will be EV.

My crystal ball says they never get there and Mary will be looking for a job because the biggest portion of GM vehicles sold are trucks and SUVs and that install base will abandon them rather than buy a POS EV truck that can't do what people buy trucks to do.

[CamaroCracka]

Originally Posted by zaimer

You can barely buy a used (decade old) Vette for 30K!

Those prices will go way down too because everybody will be abandoning their muscle cars for the awesome emission friendly cars coming out just like in the 90s. Oh wait, muscle car prices went through the roof in the 90s because people don't care what they drive.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

That's all true. While the Brownstones of New York wont be the end of the EV, I know what you guys mean. EV's will simply NEVER be for everyone, or for everywhere.

The real problem is there seems to never be any realistic balance in these things anymore(or anything seemingly). While I do think an EV will be a future purchase of mine, it will not be my only car and I will ALWAYS have an ICE. It's use is likely all that would change.

We do not need, or want, 100% of cars to be electric EVER. If GM does truly stop selling ICE vehicles, they will become weaker because of it. Any hopes of going 100% electric is far far beyond ANY claims these people make. It will take many more decades to even come close to 100%.

If people stop buying gasoline, GM will never be able to afford to build another car because plastic will be way too expensive at that point. We also have not come up with alternatives to ALL needed plastics in the world, but Mary probably has thought that far ahead.

This ^ I have no problem with them expanding their electric portfolio, I have a problem with the decision to get rid of ICE 100%

Originally Posted by Number 3

Will other companies continue to satisfy the ICE demand when GM exits? That probably will happen. It will be a business opportunity that someone will fill (as long as it's legal). For example you can go to a company called PSI and buy the old GM Mark V Big Block and V6 engines. GM sold them the tooling.

Toyota and Honda have picked up sales when GM stopped producing most of it's sedans and they didn't. But GM now only has Camaro, Corvette, Spark, Malibu CT4 and CT5. 6 cars left. Impala, LaCrosse, Cruise, Aveo, Regal, Verano, Cascada, XTS, CT6, alllll gone. And yet GM is still making a crap ton of money because the market demand changed to SUVs.

.

This ^ If there are other companies that make vehicles with ICE they will get my moneys. Maybe one day I would consider an EV but right now I have 0 desire for one.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The assumption is absolutely true, lol. You missed an important word IF. And my point was not 90% of the market, but 90% of GM buyers willing to buy EVs at 90% of its current sales volume.

Also, 2019 poll is not really valid. That's today. What will that number be in 2025, 2030 and when GM will be 100% EV in 2035. That's the number that matters.

And as I've said many times, even if 100% of the sales in 2035 are EVs it will take at least 10 to 12 years to get all the ICEs off the road and that will likely not happen. There are 200 million plus cars in the US last number I recall. Replacing them at a regular 17 million per year rate will take a while for sure.

And also, when GM says they will be 100% EV by 2035, nowhere did they suggest at what volumes. GM is consistently and wildly profitable at much lower volumes than in their history. GM has been and will only be about profit. So the only question from a GM side is will they be more profitable at 100% EVs.

And what's missing is the change in the transportation industry. By 2035 what a car is and does and how it's used will likely be very different. ADAS will be far more prevalent. GM already has Level 3 with Super Cruise. By 2035, owning your own car MAY be a lot less common. And EVs are far more suited to a ride hailing conveyance.

Will other companies continue to satisfy the ICE demand when GM exits? That probably will happen. It will be a business opportunity that someone will fill (as long as it's legal). For example you can go to a company called PSI and buy the old GM Mark V Big Block and V6 engines. GM sold them the tooling.

Toyota and Honda have picked up sales when GM stopped producing most of it's sedans and they didn't. But GM now only has Camaro, Corvette, Spark, Malibu CT4 and CT5. 6 cars left. Impala, LaCrosse, Cruise, Aveo, Regal, Verano, Cascada, XTS, CT6, alllll gone. And yet GM is still making a crap ton of money because the market demand changed to SUVs.

And the most important thing, people that come to websites to talk cars are a tiny part of the automotive buying population. And Camaro buyers are a tiny (unfortunately) subset of that. What we think and want in a car is not going to drive the market. It doesn't make GM "stupid" or it's leaders "dumb" as many on this site unfortunately resort to claiming. They just see where the market is heading and we aren't likely to be part of it.

You make a good point, I was one that said they would be weaker for going 100% EV, but I see nothing that would stop them from successfully dominating the EV market, or at least a very profitable chunk of it. Giving up on the ICE market entirely isn't reason enough to fail, success in the EV market is all that is needed assuming the numbers are there to replace the cash cows keeping them profitable today.

My skepticism with the timeline is just based on an admittedly pessimistic view of actual progress being made. They have been trying to get a high speed rail in Texas for decades, the same companies that fought that stand to lose in the EV transition too. There is so much that needs to change for this to work and I think it will take a while yet.

Just speaking about GM though, and as you said 2035 is a long time and many generations from now, they will certainly have a very desirable SUV line-up ready to fill that slot. It would be interesting how they see the industry in 14 years. Clearly a massive amount of change across multiple industries is expected.