[joeyazzata29]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Well guys, here it goes, in my "rant style"

OP: holy moly...

Firstly, there is a fundamental (and hopefully obvious to everyone) difference between racing and HPDE events. I'd also go further and say there is a fundemental difference between amateur circle track vs road course racing. The attached vid is a good example of that, where punting folks "outta the way" is a frequent occurance in circle track racing, as seen from a driver's POV (and i have seen tons myself in RL). But, if one tried it in a road racing club event they would most likely get barred for a season. Or longer. Anyone following too closely at an HPDE will get a black flag. Any aggression will lead to being expelled. If it isn't, change your HPDE provider pronto!!!

Secondly, ive been at it for a while, mostly HPDE, but also some competitive events of different types and i am happy to say ive never witnessed anyone die, nor have i ever seen a single production street car on fire. Yet i have witnessed a few cars wreck and even roll. Happy to say all drivers walked away without a scratch. Just bruised egos and tons of explaining to do to their wives and insurance companies. And towing bills to pay.

Production street cars, unlike purpose race cars are build very differently - safety wise - from a ground up. Crumple zones, fire walls, dozen+ airbags, etc vs rigid full frame, cage, fuel cell, fire suppression, etc.* Ive seen high speed hiway crashes where cars were a mangled piece if scrap, yet folks walked away.
Or maybe that's why...I also know of folks getting killed in pro race cars with full safety systems.

Bottom line, safety is a personal decision and there are no guarantees as to the outcome.
*Personally*, if i track a street car (as a dual purpose car), i prefer to keep it stock and rely on factory designed protection. Note that FIA tested and successfully passed safety of helmets with 3 points and airbags a long time ago (NB open face helmets got a pass first).
Without additional neck protection. That's not to say that wearing one (specifically designed for a 3 point) is not a good idea. Of course it is! Also note all materials inside a production car (carpets, headliner, seats, etc) must pass specific fire retardation standards. So a notion they would just light up like a Xmas tree is false.

Now if somebody installs a roll bar, a fixed seat, a harness and starts pulling airbag fuses out: they better know what the heck they are doing. Including seeking validation tests for any roll bar and especially if it is attached to a floor by screws/bolts vs frame welds. If i ever did it, i would again have a reputable race shop do the job according to full race standards (a la Nicky Bobby) vs relying on a bolt on kit that arrives in a box...
Also, *personally* I would not street any car with a roll bar because of proximity of hard iron vs soft noggin...Going "half way" is the most troublesome solution. IMO.

As far as fire suit at HPDEs: likelihood of any production car catching fire (perhaps some EVs excepted?) is extremely unlikely. Heat and dehydration is often a prime cause of poor judgement and in turn poor judgement is often a cause of mistakes and wrecks. So some pros vs cons to consider here, heat management wise. Either way, pure cotton attire only and no synthetics (which melt and stick to skin). Also UNLOCK the doors before going out. Just in case somebody has to open them from the outside.

A single layer fire suit offers about 3 second protection. Even the best suits that cost thousands are measured in seconds. To have meaningful fire protection (vs keeping wife happy and looking like a pro) one must wear additional Nomex layers under a suit. Otherwise it is mostly a fashion statement and a good way to sap one's energy on a hot day.

Either way, whatever you do, educate yourself and use your head, as it is your a$$. And dont forget everyone is an "expert" - me included (tongue in cheek of course!).

Lmaoooooooooooo.... yeah, oval racing is many punts. I know an HPDE isn't a race. I also saw no-one die at the track from '03-'12... then 3 from 2012-13. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Yes fires are unlikely ( not impossible ) in a street car, my main beef is the doors getting jammed in most collisions- window too small to escape out of- thats where a suit comes into play in a street car. Also, I don't know man im gonna be going 130-140mph in this thing why play games? I know its not a race car but..

[joeyazzata29]

Originally Posted by joeyazzata29

Lmaoooooooooooo.... yeah, oval racing is many punts. I know an HPDE isn't a race. I also saw no-one die at the track from '03-'12... then 3 from 2012-13. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Yes fires are unlikely ( not impossible ) in a street car, my main beef is the doors getting jammed in most collisions- window too small to escape out of- thats where a suit comes into play in a street car. Also, I don't know man im gonna be going 130-140mph in this thing why play games? I know its not a race car but..

Different driving manners in different variants of oval racing too. those legends cars have bumpers that line up that are basically made for punting. When I raced late models if you were pushing people like that youre typically gonna get the black flag and probably a black eye. thats what made legends cars so fun too by the way.

Also depending on the class, there can be a lot of contact on road courses as well. not for open wheel/hobbyists/hpde though.

[NickyRacerBoy]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Well guys, here it goes, in my "rant style"

OP: holy moly...

Firstly, there is a fundamental (and hopefully obvious to everyone) difference between racing and HPDE events. I'd also go further and say there is a fundemental difference between amateur circle track vs road course racing. The attached vid is a good example of that, where punting folks "outta the way" is a frequent occurance in circle track racing, as seen from a driver's POV (and i have seen tons myself in RL). But, if one tried it in a road racing club event they would most likely get barred for a season. Or longer. Anyone following too closely at an HPDE will get a black flag. Any aggression will lead to being expelled. If it isn't, change your HPDE provider pronto!!!

Secondly, ive been at it for a while, mostly HPDE, but also some competitive events of different types and i am happy to say ive never witnessed anyone die, nor have i ever seen a single production street car on fire. Yet i have witnessed a few cars wreck and even roll. Happy to say all drivers walked away without a scratch. Just bruised egos and tons of explaining to do to their wives and insurance companies. And towing bills to pay.

Production street cars, unlike purpose race cars are build very differently - safety wise - from a ground up. Crumple zones, fire walls, dozen+ airbags, etc vs rigid full frame, cage, fuel cell, fire suppression, etc.* Ive seen high speed hiway crashes where cars were a mangled piece if scrap, yet folks walked away.
Or maybe that's why...I also know of folks getting killed in pro race cars with full safety systems.

Bottom line, safety is a personal decision and there are no guarantees as to the outcome.
*Personally*, if i track a street car (as a dual purpose car), i prefer to keep it stock and rely on factory designed protection. Note that FIA tested and successfully passed safety of helmets with 3 points and airbags a long time ago (NB open face helmets got a pass first).
Without additional neck protection. That's not to say that wearing one (specifically designed for a 3 point) is not a good idea. Of course it is! Also note all materials inside a production car (carpets, headliner, seats, etc) must pass specific fire retardation standards. So a notion they would just light up like a Xmas tree is false.

Now if somebody installs a roll bar, a fixed seat, a harness and starts pulling airbag fuses out: they better know what the heck they are doing. Including seeking validation tests for any roll bar and especially if it is attached to a floor by screws/bolts vs frame welds. If i ever did it, i would again have a reputable race shop do the job according to full race standards (a la Nicky Bobby) vs relying on a bolt on kit that arrives in a box...
Also, *personally* I would not street any car with a roll bar because of proximity of hard iron vs soft noggin...Going "half way" is the most troublesome solution. IMO.

As far as fire suit at HPDEs: likelihood of any production car catching fire (perhaps some EVs excepted?) is extremely unlikely. Heat and dehydration is often a prime cause of poor judgement and in turn poor judgement is often a cause of mistakes and wrecks. So some pros vs cons to consider here, heat management wise. Either way, pure cotton attire only and no synthetics (which melt and stick to skin). Also UNLOCK the doors before going out. Just in case somebody has to open them from the outside.

A single layer fire suit offers about 3 second protection. Even the best suits that cost thousands are measured in seconds. To have meaningful fire protection (vs keeping wife happy and looking like a pro) one must wear additional Nomex layers under a suit. Otherwise it is mostly a fashion statement and a good way to sap one's energy on a hot day.

Either way, whatever you do, educate yourself and use your head, as it is your a$$. And dont forget everyone is an "expert" - me included (tongue in cheek of course!).

Well spoken as always!
I could wait to install my http://www.lifeline-fire.com/lifelin...ionsystem.aspx

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by joeyazzata29

Lmaoooooooooooo.... yeah, oval racing is many punts. I know an HPDE isn't a race. I also saw no-one die at the track from '03-'12... then 3 from 2012-13. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Yes fires are unlikely ( not impossible ) in a street car, my main beef is the doors getting jammed in most collisions- window too small to escape out of- thats where a suit comes into play in a street car. Also, I don't know man im gonna be going 130-140mph in this thing why play games? I know its not a race car but..

A best suit is worth 40 seconds. I suspect nobody here is gonna fork out this kind of money for one. Or wear full body under garment layers to meaningfully increase protection to about 1 minute. Most folks wear cheap suits worth a few seconds likely without much appreciation as to their limits. Or worse: 2 piece suits like many circle track guys do But, i agree, something is better than nothing, let's just understand limitations here and not pretend that wearing one will somehow ensure one is "safe". Fire suppression system would be a lot more effective anti fire solution for those concerned about it (again, a la Nicky Bobby!).

Bottom line: it is a personal decision as there are pros and cons involved.

Yes, small window is an issue and getting a helmet off should be first priority when evacuation is required. Something to be aware of before each stint.
I disagree that doors get jammed in "most collisions", but obviously it is possible. Anything is possible.

Tracking a production car has its issues and risks.
Heck, regardless of a type of car and all possible safety systems: this hobby comes with risks and zero safety guarantees.

But, statistically, HPDE is 100% safe as compared to driving on any Interstate on any day of the week. Hands down. And especially on Sunday evening when coming home amongst hordes of stressed moms in huge SUVs, wanna be Mario Andrettis testing for F1, semis pushing their schedules, folks asleep in left lane and other usual idiots - all driving sans any rules, nor active supervision and without dedicated EMS crews standing near by. Unlike any HPDE or a proper race.

Happy motoring

[joeyazzata29]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

A best suit is worth 40 seconds. I suspect nobody here is gonna fork out this kind of money for one. Or wear full body under garment layers to meaningfully increase protection to about 1 minute. Most folks wear cheap suits worth a few seconds likely without much appreciation as to their limits. Or worse: 2 piece suits like many circle track guys do But, i agree, something is better than nothing, let's just understand limitations here and not pretend that wearing one will somehow ensure one is "safe". Fire suppression system would be a lot more effective anti fire solution for those concerned about it (again, a la Nicky Bobby!).

Bottom line: it is a personal decision as there are pros and cons involved.

Yes, small window is an issue and getting a helmet off should be first priority when evacuation is required. Something to be aware of before each stint.
I disagree that doors get jammed in "most collisions", but obviously it is possible. Anything is possible.

Tracking a production car has its issues and risks.
Heck, regardless of a type of car and all possible safety systems: this hobby comes with risks and zero safety guarantees.

But, statistically, HPDE is 100% safe as compared to driving on any Interstate on any day of the week. Hands down. And especially on Sunday evening when coming home amongst hordes of stressed moms in huge SUVs, wanna be Mario Andrettis testing for F1, semis pushing their schedules, folks asleep in left lane and other usual idiots - all driving sans any rules, nor active supervision and without dedicated EMS crews standing near by. Unlike any HPDE or a proper race.

Happy motoring

Hahaha I hear ya man im more likely to have an issue on i95 On my way to homestead BUT I already have a suit from my racing past lol/// I wouldn't spend the money on one strictly for HPDE but I already have one so why not you know?

[joeyazzata29]

2pc suits weren't allowed at the level of circle track I was doing lol

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by joeyazzata29

Hahaha I hear ya man im more likely to have an issue on i95 On my way to homestead BUT I already have a suit from my racing past lol/// I wouldn't spend the money on one strictly for HPDE but I already have one so why not you know?

I am with ya on this: you got one, why not use it. Makes sense. 2 piece are allowed up here in We The North country
I know it is silly, but it is what it is...

[joeyazzata29]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

I am with ya on this: you got one, why not use it. Makes sense. 2 piece are allowed up here in We The North country
I know it is silly, but it is what it is...

Oh I see youre in Canada!

Sometimes at nationals w the legends cars, guys from Canada were coming down w open face helmets, 2pc suits, and no Hans lol

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by joeyazzata29

Oh I see youre in Canada!

Sometimes at nationals w the legends cars, guys from Canada were coming down w open face helmets, 2pc suits, and no Hans lol

There ya go btw Legends rock! Also saw some mini versions of them (dont know if they have a proper name or not) driven by very young kids at Erie speedway in PA once and it was a hoot! Cheers!