[turbo2ltr]

Not true. At the very least, connecting two USB devices in parallel will reduce the impedance on the line due to having 3 terminating resistors instead of 2 which affects it's ability to negotiate speeds, changes slew rates which compromises high speed communication, and violates the electrical characteristics of the spec.

Well I won't continue to argue. If it works, more power to you. But you are stressing your USB devices due to driving the output pin of one device with he output pin of the other device.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by turbo2ltr

Not true. At the very least, connecting two USB devices in parallel will reduce the impedance on the line due to having 3 terminating resistors instead of 2 which affects it's ability to negotiate speeds, changes slew rates which compromises high speed communication, and violates the electrical characteristics of the spec.

Well I won't continue to argue. If it works, more power to you. But you are stressing your USB devices due to driving the output pin of one device with he output pin of the other device.

Fair point about changing impedance if not accounted for correctly.

Given what I'm finding on the market in general in terms of available cables, splitters, hubs, etc. this is not going to be a straight-forward thing to do something about as the mini-USB connector that GM is using is generally NOT used to connect back to a host device except by actual end devices directly. In other words, trying to use a mini-USB male connector to drive a small hub that then, in turn, connects to the in-console hub and possibly an extension cable seems a non-starter. I could convert the mini-USB male to USB-A male, and then use a USB-A female to female to then connect a USB-A male... this gets unnecessarily complicated far too quickly.

Ultimately, I need the phone out of the way, out of the sun, and without a giant mess of cables. I may simply end up cutting a small hole in the console to run a cable back through underneath and up to the glove box, connecting that cable into the port in the console. Depending on what I might be able to find for a two-port hub or similar, I -may- put that in the glove box as well so as to be able to also move the USB drive with the music on it. Ideally, I would prefer a SD Card reader for music as the cards take up much less space to carry multiple ones with me.

[cellsafemode]

You can easily make a vertical pocket for that rear bin area to hold your phone. Could even drill a hole directly into the center console so that it plugs in from below instead of the cable sticking out of the top.

Also, given the rear of the console hub, the usb connector may not be supplying high current needed for today's phones (probably only doing 500ma total to the 2port hub over the mini usb connector) as there are a number of much larger pins... far more than needed for the microjack. So you'll want a powered hub (good luck finding a 12v powered hub) if you're adding a hub to the system.


I'd suggest this after cutting the GM proprietary usb wire
https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...300-ND/5762450
(this is what your usb hub plugs into using a basic usb A to usb mini cable that the hub requires for host connection. The pinout side is what you connect the cut cable to from the HMI)

Find a spare USB data cable somewhere (with normal male usb a connector) and cut it. Wire it to the other end of the cut hmi cable going to the usb ports. This will connect into the USB hub like any other device you are connecting.


Then wire this to the current handling wires in that other wire harness that goes to the usb ports or to any live wires wherever you end up putting the new usb hub
https://www.amazon.com/Converter-DRO.../dp/B01NALDSJ0
(bonus - this includes a quick charge usb port to allow you to wire a fast charge usb port somewhere ... wont be good for AA, but better than most lighter charger options for passengers)

This will allow you to wire in any 5v input powered hub and have 5amps available total to all connected devices.

https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...083-ND/6834072

You could 3d print a little housing for these two guys (with plenty of ventillation) and attach it wherever convenient.

I'd suggest cutting the HMI usb wire near the HMI box under the dash. Wire a new USB A male connector to the HMI usb cable and plug that into the new USB hub that you'll wire and attach below the dash. This minimizes longer cable runs than what already exists and gives you the most options for where to install the new hub module and easy access to the glove box and entire dash.

this setup gives you 5 usb data ports total (2 in console, 3 from the under dash hub) and 1 fast charge-capable-only port. With high current available in console thru the stock power supply...and high current available shared between the under dash hub and the fast charge port.

I'd also recommend to thermal epoxy in heatsinks on the transistors/mosfets on the power converter to keep it cool and reduce the chance of premature failure due to overheating. You can find these where-ever arduino stuff is sold basically.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

You can easily make a vertical pocket for that rear bin area to hold your phone. Could even drill a hole directly into the center console so that it plugs in from below instead of the cable sticking out of the top.

I think what you're describing is something that would sit in the space behind the console that would hold the phone in a vertical position. While that might be useful in a coupe, my car is a convertible and it would still leave the phone in the sun. And black phones in black cases get "too hot" very quickly in direct sunlight and then they simply shut down.

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

Also, given the rear of the console hub, the usb connector may not be supplying high current needed for today's phones (probably only doing 500ma total to the 2port hub over the mini usb connector) as there are a number of much larger pins... far more than needed for the microjack. So you'll want a powered hub (good luck finding a 12v powered hub) if you're adding a hub to the system.

I'm sort of expecting that power delivery is only 500mA per port since that's the general standard for most devices until you get to the high-speed charge capable devices. Since that also requires a fair amount of additional circuitry to negotiate the higher charging speeds, it won't be present in those ports.

Powered hubs use a DC input barrel connector and are typically driven by 12V sources from a transformer. This would be easy to supply from the car using a switched circuit, but it would still not likely go beyond the 500mA per port output simply because more intelligence means more electronics, and that means larger size... NOT what I'm after.

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

I'd suggest this after cutting the GM proprietary usb wire
https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...300-ND/5762450
(this is what your usb hub plugs into using a basic usb A to usb mini cable that the hub requires for host connection. The pinout side is what you connect the cut cable to from the HMI)

Find a spare USB data cable somewhere (with normal male usb a connector) and cut it. Wire it to the other end of the cut hmi cable going to the usb ports. This will connect into the USB hub like any other device you are connecting.

This seems unnecessary as I can buy a mini-USB female to USB-A female adapter for about the cost of that circuit board / connector combo and simply plug right into the factory cable directly at the console end.

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

Then wire this to the current handling wires in that other wire harness that goes to the usb ports or to any live wires wherever you end up putting the new usb hub
https://www.amazon.com/Converter-DRO.../dp/B01NALDSJ0
(bonus - this includes a quick charge usb port to allow you to wire a fast charge usb port somewhere ... wont be good for AA, but better than most lighter charger options for passengers)

This will allow you to wire in any 5v input powered hub and have 5amps available total to all connected devices.

https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...083-ND/6834072

You could 3d print a little housing for these two guys (with plenty of ventillation) and attach it wherever convenient.

I'd suggest cutting the HMI usb wire near the HMI box under the dash. Wire a new USB A male connector to the HMI usb cable and plug that into the new USB hub that you'll wire and attach below the dash. This minimizes longer cable runs than what already exists and gives you the most options for where to install the new hub module and easy access to the glove box and entire dash.

Would all of this work? Seemingly. But, it's a TON of work and creates a fair amount of "extra stuff" that has to get installed into the car. Not to mention, it also requires damaging factory parts which then can not be reverted back AND will pretty much immediately void any sort of warranty on the electrical system of the car.

I'm hoping to find something that's much more "plug and play" as a solution, but appreciate the thoughts.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by ember1205

I think what you're describing is something that would sit in the space behind the console that would hold the phone in a vertical position. While that might be useful in a coupe, my car is a convertible and it would still leave the phone in the sun. And black phones in black cases get "too hot" very quickly in direct sunlight and then they simply shut down.

Fair.

I'm sort of expecting that power delivery is only 500mA per port since that's the general standard for most devices until you get to the high-speed charge capable devices. Since that also requires a fair amount of additional circuitry to negotiate the higher charging speeds, it won't be present in those ports.

You would be wrong. While the USB spec does say 500ma, most devices (phones and ipads etc) will not charge on 500ma these days. They use more than that just being on. You will almost certainly need over 1amp to charge a phone while in AA mode and the stock sockets will make even more than that available. 2amps is fairly standard for charging at more than a trickle rate while the device is on. Fast chargers use higher voltage to mitigate having to pump more current thru thin wires that can't handle it. But 2amps at 5v is common for non-fast chargers.

Powered hubs use a DC input barrel connector and are typically driven by 12V sources from a transformer. This would be easy to supply from the car using a switched circuit, but it would still not likely go beyond the 500mA per port output simply because more intelligence means more electronics, and that means larger size... NOT what I'm after.

If you check my links, i'm using a voltage regulator that takes the car's voltage and converts it to 5v (and provides a fast charger port for higher voltage charging on devices that support it (just for charging though...so passengers)

There's no need for a transformer (these take AC and convert to DC). While the picture shows a DC barrel jack ...you dont need to use that to connect to the car's wiring. There are little wiring terminals on the inputs and outputs available.


Even if you wanted only 500ma at any given port at any time, you'd still need a power source like this to power your hub since the HMI unit is only giving 500ma (maybe) to the host cable connection that you are then splitting to 5 ports (assuming a 4 port hub)

This seems unnecessary as I can buy a mini-USB female to USB-A female adapter for about the cost of that circuit board / connector combo and simply plug right into the factory cable directly at the console end.

Would all of this work? Seemingly. But, it's a TON of work and creates a fair amount of "extra stuff" that has to get installed into the car. Not to mention, it also requires damaging factory parts which then can not be reverted back AND will pretty much immediately void any sort of warranty on the electrical system of the car.

I'm hoping to find something that's much more "plug and play" as a solution, but appreciate the thoughts.

These are tiny devices that can fit in a single arduino sized case and mounted along side the existing HMI module.

You could ditch the existing ports, sure... find a cable connector that fits into the HMI mini usb port (maybe...it's not standard sized opening around the connector even though the actual usb connector is a standard connector) and plug a usb hub in ...but it would be only powered by the usb connector and that's insufficient to charge a device while it's active. There's a reason there are like 5 or 6 large pins on the stock USB console ports along with the usb cable and that's almost certainly to deliver the much higher 5volt current to those ports than what's riding over the usb cable (in addition to the analog audio)

EDIT to above statement: I am pretty sure the voltage regulator chevy uses to power those stock ports is actually inside the cable connector bulkhead and that's why it overheats and fails sometimes. The pins going into it probably deliver straight car voltage and grounds (in addition to the analog audio going somewhere)

Most hubs put their voltage regulator at the transformer rather than inside so they dont take 12v internally and regulate it to 5v.

Plus, I highly doubt you'll be able to avoid just cutting the hmi's usb cable and keeping the proprietary connectors connected to where they are and converting it into two separate cables with standard connectors (or directly wired) ends to splice into the new equipment.

[cellsafemode]

If you didn't want your device to charge while actively using carplay or AA
Then cut the usb wire going to the stock ports. Wire a USB A female cable to it and mount that cable end to where you want to plug your phone into. No hub needed.

If you want to charge while using AA or have multiple ports that are actually usable, you'll need an anyvolt stepdown regulator like i provided as most hubs will not have an internal regulator that can handle car voltage ranges directly and 500ma isn't going to cut it with phones connected to an unpowered hub while trying to use any other ports too (like for flash drives). (this kind of power regulation is what those other pins are providing under the console....but rather than try to tap those under the dash near the glove box, it's easier to just install your own)

[17rsvert]

My solution to this was to use a phone-size cargo net to hold the phone on the side of the transmission hump under the knee pad.

I glued the "hook" half of velcro strip to the back of the cargo net frame, and it sticks really well to the carpet. I drilled a small hole in the driver side bottom rear corner of the console and ran the USB cable thru that then forward between the plasic sides and carpet. The cable comes out next to the cargo net.

You could do something similar and run it to the glove box

[MANNAXMAN]

Originally Posted by ember1205

I think what you're describing is something that would sit in the space behind the console that would hold the phone in a vertical position. While that might be useful in a coupe, my car is a convertible and it would still leave the phone in the sun. And black phones in black cases get "too hot" very quickly in direct sunlight and then they simply shut down.

Not to further hijack this thread, but how long are you driving with the top down and at what outside temperatures? I have my cell phone mount attached to the side of the center console and I drive with the top down with outside temps up to about 100°F, and I don't have any issues with my phone getting too hot in that location.

[gblaue]

Originally Posted by ember1205

I think what you're describing is something that would sit in the space behind the console that would hold the phone in a vertical position. While that might be useful in a coupe, my car is a convertible and it would still leave the phone in the sun. And black phones in black cases get "too hot" very quickly in direct sunlight and then they simply shut down.



I'm sort of expecting that power delivery is only 500mA per port since that's the general standard for most devices until you get to the high-speed charge capable devices. Since that also requires a fair amount of additional circuitry to negotiate the higher charging speeds, it won't be present in those ports.

Powered hubs use a DC input barrel connector and are typically driven by 12V sources from a transformer. This would be easy to supply from the car using a switched circuit, but it would still not likely go beyond the 500mA per port output simply because more intelligence means more electronics, and that means larger size... NOT what I'm after.



This seems unnecessary as I can buy a mini-USB female to USB-A female adapter for about the cost of that circuit board / connector combo and simply plug right into the factory cable directly at the console end.



Would all of this work? Seemingly. But, it's a TON of work and creates a fair amount of "extra stuff" that has to get installed into the car. Not to mention, it also requires damaging factory parts which then can not be reverted back AND will pretty much immediately void any sort of warranty on the electrical system of the car.

I'm hoping to find something that's much more "plug and play" as a solution, but appreciate the thoughts.

How about one of each of these....?


https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24260


https://www.ebay.com/i/391965454603?...iABEgJLl_D_BwE




$13. No cutting, plug it in.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

You would be wrong. While the USB spec does say 500ma, most devices (phones and ipads etc) will not charge on 500ma these days. They use more than that just being on. You will almost certainly need over 1amp to charge a phone while in AA mode and the stock sockets will make even more than that available. 2amps is fairly standard for charging at more than a trickle rate while the device is on. Fast chargers use higher voltage to mitigate having to pump more current thru thin wires that can't handle it. But 2amps at 5v is common for non-fast chargers.

USB spec (up to and including USB 2.0) specifically calls for regulating power output to 500mA. When you move to things like Power Delivery or other fast-charge standards, things change. The ports in this car do not support that, so they fall back to 500mA which will actually work just fine as long as your phone isn't doing multiple things at once (location services/GPS, streaming music, etc.).

USB 3.0 allows up to 900mA. When you're talking about 2A of output for 5 volts, I suspect you are referring to chargers only and are discussing the TOTAL output of the device spread across four ports.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by 17rsvert

My solution to this was to use a phone-size cargo net to hold the phone on the side of the transmission hump under the knee pad.

I glued the "hook" half of velcro strip to the back of the cargo net frame, and it sticks really well to the carpet. I drilled a small hole in the driver side bottom rear corner of the console and ran the USB cable thru that then forward between the plasic sides and carpet. The cable comes out next to the cargo net.

You could do something similar and run it to the glove box

Interesting idea along the lines of something I had been sort of trying to come up with as an option. The glove box seemed like the best place to get the phone completely out of the sun and out of the way, but this has a lot of merit. Thanks for sharing.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by MANNAXMAN

Not to further hijack this thread, but how long are you driving with the top down and at what outside temperatures? I have my cell phone mount attached to the side of the center console and I drive with the top down with outside temps up to about 100°F, and I don't have any issues with my phone getting too hot in that location.

The issue has nothing at all to do with outside temperature and everything to do with the phone sitting directly in the sun. If I'm driving this car, the top is down. Period. That's why I bought it, and anything less means it stays in the garage and I take the truck. I've had the phone shut down on me a few times because there simply wasn't a place to stash it in the middle of the day where it was out of the sun. :(

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by gblaue

How about one of each of these....?


https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24260


https://www.ebay.com/i/391965454603?...iABEgJLl_D_BwE




$13. No cutting, plug it in.

"Missed it by THAT much."

First, thanks for the thought.

Second, the cable from eBay has the wrong mini-USB connector - it needs to be female so that the make end on the console end of the connection will connect to it. Unless you're talking about doing this at the HMI end? I haven't looked there yet.

I found an adapter on Amazon that is female mini-USB to female USB-A that would work in the scenario you're thinking.

There's only one aspect to your suggestion that leaves a gap, and that's leaving the in-console USB connections dead as a result. Granted, it can be reversed by moving the mini-USB back to the module at any point...

[gblaue]

Originally Posted by ember1205

"Missed it by THAT much."

First, thanks for the thought.

Second, the cable from eBay has the wrong mini-USB connector - it needs to be female so that the make end on the console end of the connection will connect to it. Unless you're talking about doing this at the HMI end? I haven't looked there yet.

I found an adapter on Amazon that is female mini-USB to female USB-A that would work in the scenario you're thinking.

There's only one aspect to your suggestion that leaves a gap, and that's leaving the in-console USB connections dead as a result. Granted, it can be reversed by moving the mini-USB back to the module at any point...

Put the hub behind the dash, and run USB A extensions to your console and glove box.