[GunMetalGrey]

Does anybody have any experience moving from the ZL1’s MRC to Detroit Speed Coilovers on the track?

I know a few forum members have gone to the ZLE’s DSSV and were not overly impressed since there was not a large improvement in lap times, about 1 second on a 2 minute lap, and I was wondering if Detroit Speed Coil overs and/or the entire package from JDP would fair any better?

https://store.jdpmotorsports.com/col...age-jdp-tp3000

[kropscamaro16]

its a nice kit but not sure if its worth the $$$ and not many people have even really bought one due to price

[Outahand]

That is not cheap, but it does show installed and alignment included.

[Badmojo]

Try this first: https://www.dscsport.com/camaro/

[Move_Over]

I have to ask myself this question as well, so not picking on you.

What are you disliking about the MRC, and what changes are you tying to make?

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Badmojo

Try this first: https://www.dscsport.com/camaro/

I’ll check it out thanks

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Move_Over

I have to ask myself this question as well, so not picking on you.

What are you disliking about the MRC, and what changes are you tying to make?

Totally valid, I was thinking of putting this in my original post in anticipation of this question; I have no plans on changing the suspension any time soon, it’s great, and first things first I need to learn how to drive and track my car, but having said that I always like to know where there are potential improvements down the road and if those improvements are significant or valuable and worth it.

Once I get better and can actually drive to the limits of my car, I’d like to make it as competitive as possible against Porsche’s and Corvettes despite it having the weight penalty it has, but like I said that’s definitely a while from now for sure, just gathering info for now.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Totally valid, I was thinking of putting this in my original post in anticipation of this question; I have no plans on changing the suspension any time soon, it’s great, and first things first I need to learn how to drive and track my car, but having said that I always like to know where there are potential improvements down the road and if those improvements are significant or valuable and worth it.

Once I get better and can actually drive to the limits of my car, I’d like to make it as competitive as possible against Porsche’s and Corvettes despite it having the weight penalty it does, but like I said that’s definitely a number of years from now for sure, just gathering info for now.

Well thought out response. I am not anti-modding, but there is a defo "80/20" approach, when somebody tries to get more out of a car.

As we all know a stock ZL1 slays many exotics - in capable hands. And indeed a driver skill is the most important aspect to get speed out of any car.

There are 3 things that i would put on the 80/20 list: driver skill, power to weight ratio and tires. Those are no brainers and will provide a highest degree of reliable pace increase.

Suspension is an important component to overall performance, but it is likely the most complex part to get right. Allow me to elaborate: for a suspension to make a car faster it needs to speed up weight transfer rates (by and large). This means a driver skill needs to match those rates in terms of their ability to keep more "nervous" car on the limit. Without proper skill, pace will likely suffer, as the car will be more difficult to drive fast.
Take a look at many pro vids and the degree of corrections a driver needs to make to keep a car balanced. Usually they are very busy as the car's responses are super quick (vs more progressive).

IMO an amateur will be faster in a more progressive car which would permit us to focus on getting the most pace out of the package vs just focusing on not wrecking.

1 sec improvement on a 2min lap may very well be due to a driver getting better sleep a night before, better state of the track, better weather, less fuel, or a full moon. I improved my time at Mosport by almost a second last year. Now had i upgraded something on the car, that would permit me to claim it was the mod. But in reality such claim would be pure BS. Much had been said about upgrading a controller, mainly due to how a car "felt", but then a couple of folks actually tested it at a track and had zero pace increase (this thread is burried somewhere here).

Moreover, MRC and its modes are calibrated with Elsd which is magic at many levels re handling. The last thing id like to do is to disrupt that connection.

And lastly, a fully adjustable suspension is wonderful. But it is a highly complex system which absolutely requires 2 things:

1. A highly skilled driver who is able (by feel) to identify what the car needs to do better and in what corner phase when AT THE LIMIT (tuning for what the car feels like below the limit is completely pointless).

2. A highly skilled crew chief character then needs to translate that feedback to actual changes required to the set up. Keep in mind some changes may improve a certain corner phase but degrade another as a result.
And indeed even pro crew chiefs dont always get it right.
Suspension set up is an art, starting with proper driver feedback. If the latter is suspect, or incorrect, changing set up ends up in battling proverbial wind mills.

Many cars come with imperfect handling out of factory. CAMARO is NOT one of them. Randy Pobst constant gushing is indeed fully justified. Wanna increase pace reliably by seconds vs tenths? Put G3R wheels/tires on a ZL1, or slicks - once your skill level allows for it.

Hope this helps, or at least makes you ponder some extra aspects. Cheers and have fun with your ZL1!

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Well thought out response. I am not anti-modding, but there is a defo "80/20" approach, when somebody tries to get more out of a car.

As we all know a stock ZL1 slays many exotics - in capable hands. And indeed a driver skill is the most important aspect to get speed out of any car.

There are 3 things that i would put on the 80/20 list: driver skill, power to weight ratio and tires. Those are no brainers and will provide a highest degree of reliable pace increase.

Suspension is an important component to overall performance, but it is likely the most complex part to get right. Allow me to elaborate: for a suspension to make a car faster it needs to speed up weight transfer rates (by and large). This means a driver skill needs to match those rates in terms of their ability to keep more "nervous" car on the limit. Without proper skill, pace will likely suffer, as the car will be more difficult to drive fast.
Take a look at many pro vids and the degree of corrections a driver needs to make to keep a car balanced. Usually they are very busy as the car's responses are super quick (vs more progressive).

IMO an amateur will be faster in a more progressive car which would permit us to focus on getting the most pace out of the package vs just focusing on not wrecking.

1 sec improvement on a 2min lap may very well be due to a driver getting better sleep a night before, better state of the track, better weather, less fuel, or a full moon. I improved my time at Mosport by almost a second last year. Now had i upgraded something on the car, that would permit me to claim it was the mod. But in reality such claim would be pure BS. Much had been said about upgrading a controller, mainly due to how a car "felt", but then a couple of folks actually tested it at a track and had zero pace increase (this thread is burried somewhere here).

Moreover, MRC and its modes are calibrated with Elsd which is magic at many levels re handling. The last thing id like to do is to disrupt that connection.

And lastly, a fully adjustable suspension is wonderful. But it is a highly complex system which absolutely requires 2 things:

1. A highly skilled driver who is able (by feel) to identify what the car needs to do better and in what corner phase when AT THE LIMIT (tuning for what the car feels like below the limit is completely pointless).

2. A highly skilled crew chief character then needs to translate that feedback to actual changes required to the set up. Keep in mind some changes may improve a certain corner phase but degrade another as a result.
And indeed even pro crew chiefs dont always get it right.
Suspension set up is an art, starting with proper driver feedback. If the latter is suspect, or incorrect, changing set up ends up in battling proverbial wind mills.

Many cars come with imperfect handling out of factory. CAMARO is NOT one of them. Randy Pobst constant gushing is indeed fully justified. Wanna increase pace reliably by seconds vs tenths? Put G3R wheels/tires on a ZL1, or slicks - once your skill level allows for it.

Hope this helps, or at least makes you ponder some extra aspects. Cheers and have fun with your ZL1!

Thanks, Now that’s a well thought out response! I appreciate that info, the more I read posts and responses like this the better educated I get and the more perspective I get.

Definitely planned on moving to SC3R’s next year, thanks for confirming that choice.

[TrackClub]

G3Rs will up the pace substantially as from all accounts they seem a fast tire. But from what i have read they dont last long. And i have no idea how much they cost.
It may be a good idea to check tire threads here and see what ZL1 1LE guys run. If you can get Pirelli DH scrubs that would be my #1 choice (price vs pace vs longevity), but that would likely call for 18 inch rims.

So my suggestion would be a bit more tire specific r+d before you pull the trigger. PM Provoste and Seanblurr for their perspectives. Both track ZL1 1LEs and both are very fast (and nice guys to boot ).

Best of luck!

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

G3Rs will up the pace substantially as from all accounts they seem a fast tire. But from what i have read they dont last long. And i have no idea how much they cost.
It may be a good idea to check tire threads here and see what ZL1 1LE guys run. If you can get Pirelli DH scrubs that would be my #1 choice (price vs pace vs longevity), but that would likely call for 18 inch rims.

So my suggestion would be a bit more tire specific r+d before you pull the trigger. PM Provoste and Seanblurr for their perspectives. Both track ZL1 1LEs and both are very fast (and nice guys to boot ).

Best of luck!

I haven’t researched the slicks yet, im not sure how to know when a scrub is good deal.
But If I can get them in 19” I’d consider it since I plan on going with 19” SC3R tires next year.

I’ve done a fair bit of research on the SC3R and PM’d a lot of guys here in the forum regarding their experience with it, I its definitely the best bang for the buck in terms of the stickiest non-slick tire when in 19” size, but yeah they dont last long at all, especially the fronts cording, but rotating/flipping tires between track days apparently goes a long ways.

These are some of my notes

ZLE Goodyear SC3R
- These tires are wider than there rated measurements
- These OEM Goodyears are great tires but the fronts will only last 2 track days before they are either corded, heat cycled out, or both. The rears last twice as long.
- I am getting about half the life out of the G3R's (100TW) vs. the G3's (220TW) with similar alignment specs
- Some of my friends have tried R888Rs only to come back to the SuperCar-R tire.
- Turned out it performed better than the Michelin SC2 in many of their testing situations.
- Another says they last 2 track days
- CotA will eat a set of 3Rs after 8-10 sessions
- I corded the front 3Rs in 2 track days. They grip like mad but the 20" SC3s are 90% of the grip with 10x the longevity.
- Others say they will last 3 track days with flipping.
- RUQWIKR mentioned that his fronts (305 3Rs) were done after 14 heatcycles
- The 3R is far superior than the NT01 on the Camaro platform. I recently ran 315/325-18 NT01's, tested them with multiple pressures using a tire pyrometer and could not get them to work. They were roughly 2-4 seconds SLOWER than the 3R over a 2 minute lap.
- Well, that is the downside of them. I will only get about 6-7 sessions out of the front tires before the inside cords. This happens to be a known problem with the ZL1 1LE
- Dismounting, flipping and remounting the tires can make the fronts last 3 track days

The SCG3R in 19” will be significantly cheaper than the Hoosier R7 (by $700) and might last almost as long.

Goodyear SCG3 R 19
- $1480 USD / $1980 CAD for 305/30/19 and 325/30/19

[TrackClub]

Contact http://gttrackdays.com for sizes and pricing. Those guys seem very popular and are quick to respond etc. They also have 1st hand experience as they track their cars.

Pirelli DH (dry, hard) compound seems most favoured as it is fast yet durable. Those guys have a good reputation albeit sometimes you can get a dud as part of shippment. The issue is they dont deliver to Canada. But if you are close to the border: that solves it logistics wise if you can pick it up at the US address. It helps if you had an opp to buy a few sets at once and have some in reserve when needed.

You could also try new Hoosiers and see how they last (vs G3R).

Note neither choice is street legal and absolutely suicidal in wet conditions. So you'll either have to carry a set of rims inside your car, or trailer your beast.

Cheers!

[TrackClub]

Yes: srubs are (usually) lightly used competition tires. Most often used by teams for qualy. So mostly 2 heat cycles.

[TrackClub]

Something that crossed my mind today:

Unless you can push the car to its limit, cross it and recover comfortably - learning how to feel the car, sense the limits and drive at, or very close to the limits: should be an absolute priority.

If you still need seat time to achieve the above, then the learning process will be much easier (and faster) on stock tires, which are rather progressive, offering fairly friendly slip angles. They are also very fast!

Stickier tires will offer higher G forces and hence more pace, but narrower slip angles requiring much more skill to drive them on the limit, as feedback will be much more abrupt and less forgiving, when they exceed grip levels.
At the same time, speeds will be higher, requiring even faster corrections. NOT a good combo for a learning environment imo.

Kinda like aspiring jet figher pilots dont start learning the craft on top level equipment, but rather start on turbo prop trainers. Too many examples here to justify that proper learning progression yields best results vs diving off the deep end prematurely.

I have seen many examples of folks capable of pushing their cars on street track tires being much faster than tentative drivers on slicks. The latter wont deliver automatic pace increase unless one has a skill to push them.

If a track hobby is a fairly new thing here and so is the car (which is a monster!), id use up a good few sets of stock tires before mounting anything more aggressive on. Stock G3s are one of the best in the biz in their category, which by design is track vs street focused. So you won't be disappointed for sure.

Food for thought