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Old 05-22-2019, 08:02 AM   #43
Street Lethal
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IMO, this quote from Car and Driver right here;

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Both have two doors, six cylinders, and the same objective, but the Chevrolet Camaro costs nearly $20,000 less...
... essentially ended the debate. For half of the difference of that $20,000 cost, the Camaro can add either a Procharger, Vortech or even a turbo for that matter, as well as a tune. That is the game changer right there, in my opinion.

- Rob
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:18 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Baldilocks01SS View Post
The market are idiots. They buy SUVs and are killing cars. You can post stats all day like that and it really doesn't matter. I'd never consider a Japanese brand over and American icon.
I used to have that same view point when I was 13 and wanted a camaro lol I was bow tie or nothing. Then I grew up and learned to appreciate other makes and models
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:36 AM   #45
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I used to have that same view point when I was 13 and wanted a camaro lol I was bow tie or nothing. Then I grew up and learned to appreciate other makes and models
Didn't say I don't appreciate it. It's just not the same, it's not special.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:56 PM   #46
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There was never any doubt in my mind the Super was making more power than advertised. That's just how it is with most, if not all BMW performance engines.

Even if the torque is over-inflated in that Car and Driver test (which I think it is) this car is easily making 375HP and 400 TQ.
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Old 05-22-2019, 10:35 PM   #47
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It's not even a debate of being a better deal, they simply matched up two cars incorrectly. SS or 1le SS (not sure if all or some Toyotas have a handling package).
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Old 05-23-2019, 05:43 AM   #48
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Then I grew up and learned to appreciate other makes and models
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Old 05-29-2019, 02:28 PM   #49
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The Supra is actually a good performer
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Old 05-29-2019, 04:19 PM   #50
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The Supra has a following and rightfully so. In the '90s, there were dyno whores that had Supras making 800+HP at the wheels. Many of these folks wouldn't take them to the strip or track. However, the cars were real monsters.

The partnership between BMW and Toyota speaks to what development costs are today. Even Toyota could not justify the costs of developing an in-line 6 for a low volume vehicle. Still staying true to their roots, they partnered with a company that has a real history of making great in-line 6 engines.

I for one, am glad that we have another sports car to admire. It is also fair to state that there are many who will never buy a GM or American product due to memories from the late 70's through the 80's (horrible vehicles, including some that exploded on contact). Having choices and good ones, at that, may keep our hobby (passion) alive just a little longer.
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Old 05-30-2019, 08:39 AM   #51
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The Supra has a following and rightfully so. In the '90s, there were dyno whores that had Supras making 800+HP at the wheels. Many of these folks wouldn't take them to the strip or track. However, the cars were real monsters.

The partnership between BMW and Toyota speaks to what development costs are today. Even Toyota could not justify the costs of developing an in-line 6 for a low volume vehicle. Still staying true to their roots, they partnered with a company that has a real history of making great in-line 6 engines.

I for one, am glad that we have another sports car to admire. It is also fair to state that there are many who will never buy a GM or American product due to memories from the late 70's through the 80's (horrible vehicles, including some that exploded on contact). Having choices and good ones, at that, may keep our hobby (passion) alive just a little longer.
I mostly agree with everything you said I just don't think I will see very many of these on the streets. The 50k+ for SS/GT performance is a little steep I think. I do expect a modded one to be an absolute monster though.
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:10 AM   #52
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The Supra has a following and rightfully so. In the '90s, there were dyno whores that had Supras making 800+HP at the wheels. Many of these folks wouldn't take them to the strip or track. However, the cars were real monsters.
A 3.0 engine on pump fuel does not make 800+ HP, we are talking no load dyno queens on race fuel. Real world 93 octane about 550ish RWHP, no, not chump change. There is only ONE Supra in the pump gas shoot-out and he is DNF for more than a decade

This goes all the way back to the LS1 days, the Supra boys always claiming some mythical number, I HAVE NEVER SEEN OR HEARD OF A STREET SUPRA TURING A DECENT 1/4 MILE TIME PERIOD. The average mod Supra on the street running OEM trans and diff and pump gas, with the factory A/C working was making about 400 WHP...
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:15 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Lafourche1 View Post

I for one, am glad that we have another sports car to admire. It is also fair to state that there are many who will never buy a GM or American product due to memories from the late 70's through the 80's (horrible vehicles, including some that exploded on contact). Having choices and good ones, at that, may keep our hobby (passion) alive just a little longer.

Nothing was worse than the rusting on Japanese cars like the Rustsoons aka Datsun. Pinto blow up, try the girl was reversing on a freeway when she was hit by a van going 70 MPH, Ford showed in the repeated test the biggest cars made in the 70 ALL failed in the same crash. I'd rather be in a 2300 lbs Pinto vs a 1900 Datsun B210... or Fiat... LOL. Oh BTW I did race many 2TG and 3TG (4 bangers) Toyota Engines both Toyota head and Yamaha Head, compared to the BMW, there were INFERIOR in every way. The famed Toyota 6 is a very short head with poor port angles and the cast iron block still had the boss for the mechanical pump when it had a 2bbl carb days. The thing weighs MORE than any American V8 too. Please, the only thing worse than the 3.0 Toyota was the 2.5 Nissan. Both tiny engines that were limited to cylinder pressure like any other engine on pump fuel PERIOD.

The BMW was a far more impressive design both the 2V and then the 4 V engines. I did a lot of racing with the 2800 to 3.0 CS cars back in the day, worked on a few of the 4v when they came out (could not afford one at the time). I think even Toyota admits that it is REALLY hard to build a better 4V inline 6 than BMW. My other favorite inline 6 is the Ford 200 and 250 cid, these were slowly evolved down under from non-crossflow IHV to OHC to DOHC 4V just like the Toyota and Nissan engines. Here is the link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Barra_engine

Of course, these are impressive but not as impressive as the slant 6 to hyper pack 6 to the hemi 6 back in the day:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Hemi-6_Engine


So it ain't like I hate on the inline 6, love the design, just can't stand the myth that Supra was somehow dominating anything outside of some race fuel hale Mary dyno runs....
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Last edited by oldman; 05-30-2019 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:09 AM   #54
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The Supra motor just tested some insane number on the Dyno this week. They underrated the power. They are saying in reality its pushing much more at the motor than they list it
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:48 AM   #55
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just like Honda and the ring runs with the type R and then at least one super road test... NEVER repeated on a production car that Joe Average buys... despite Honda's claim. So that is an example of a pre-production "ringer".

On the other hand:

I owned two GLH-S, both purchased low miles from the original owners. Both had the optional Shelby brain at 205 HP, both owners told me that is the way the car came and that 175 HP brain (used to save the trans), was just to get the smog and Dodge's OK to sell the car thru the dealer. Story? dunno. but both had the brain. It will be "myth" in the future but IMO all GLH-S had the 205 HP brain PERIOD. The stock as left the production line programming got "lost" when the GLH-S in the Shelby shops.... We know that Toyota got into some trouble by quoting a faster 0-60 vs the BMW which suppose to have more HP....

I will also note that the JCW mini 2.0 will have 300 HP (up from 228), it is basically the same engine as the 4 banger Supra... My wife has a tweeked Cooper and the BMW 2.0 is fast becoming my favorite 4 banger going all the way back to my 1966 BMW 2000 CS with dual side drafts....
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