[shaffe]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Speaking of the Explorer ST, the reviews are out today on the all new model. Sounds like it is a fun ride with good handling to boot.

Nice job Ford.

Personally, I don't think it looks as good as the old one though. I don't really care for the new Escape either.

Yeah so far the initial test drives of all the new Explorer models say it's a huge improvement over the outgoing one.

I like the new Explorer, but need to see it in person.

New Escape is a dumpster fire

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by BMR Sales

WUT? Jeep builds the TrackHawk and sells them all! Porsche, Bentley, BMW all build HP SUVS.

I have never seen a Trackhawk in the wild... which got me to wondering just how many they actually sell. Less than 7,500 worldwide for the 2018 model.

Which basically proves my point - selling only 7,500 of anything is not going to interest GM.

As for Porsche, BMW, and Bentley - they pretty much live in a different world than GM, especially when it comes to SUVs. So what works for them has virtually zero to do with what works for GM.

[DRKS1D3]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

I have never seen a Trackhawk in the wild... which got me to wondering just how many they actually sell. Less than 7,500 worldwide for the 2018 model.

Which basically proves my point - selling only 7,500 of anything is not going to interest GM.

As for Porsche, BMW, and Bentley - they pretty much live in a different world than GM, especially when it comes to SUVs. So what works for them has virtually zero to do with what works for GM.

My buddies and I go to a lot of car shows and I've seen ~10-12 Trackhawks. The three Jeep dealerships around here have each had at least 1-2 as well. The TH is a niche vehicle. Niche vehicles will never appeal to the masses, nor will they be produced in huge numbers.

GM does sell niche vehicles in low numbers though, so it does interest them.

2012 ZL1- ~1,885
2014 Z/28- ~500
2015 Z/28- ~1,300
2018 ZL1/1LE- ~1,600
2019 ZR1- less than 2,000

[KMPrenger]

Just a wild guess here, but I'm also going to assume the 90+ thousand dollar MSRP on the TH is another reason you don't see too many in the wild.

(I've never seen one, then again, around here just seeing a low end Porsche is somethin)

[lbls1]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

They would be using a TT6 from Cadillac. I know people want the V8 but doesn't that require a RW drive platform? I will give Kudos to Ford though, the new Explorer is running on a RWD platform. I'd say Ford has Chevy beat with the Explorer but Chevy with the Equinox is beating out the Escape/Edge.

I still feel that Chevy and GM cut too quickly and too deep into the midsized SUV and pick-up lines in '08. At least Ford kept a lot of the themes from their old Explorer SUVs and grafted them onto the newer platform. TrailBlazer and Envoy were (IMO) at their peak when they were cut.

The GMT360s were due for an update, but GM eliminated the platform. GM realized later that they cut too deeply into the truck and suv platform, so that is why Canyon and Colorado re-appeared. The Traverse is an ok people mover, but its nowhere near the ruggedness and towing capability of the old TrailBlazer. We are also missing the niche market that's covered by Jeep Grand Cherokee. GM and Chevy have good ideas, but they have made costly mistakes along the way.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

I have never seen a Trackhawk in the wild... which got me to wondering just how many they actually sell. Less than 7,500 worldwide for the 2018 model.

Which basically proves my point - selling only 7,500 of anything is not going to interest GM.

As for Porsche, BMW, and Bentley - they pretty much live in a different world than GM, especially when it comes to SUVs. So what works for them has virtually zero to do with what works for GM.

That is a good point but didn't the track hawk pretty much just dive into the parts bin. Yeah they had to test and certify but didn't they just grab parts of the shelf.

[DRKS1D3]

Originally Posted by shaffe

That is a good point but didn't the track hawk pretty much just dive into the parts bin. Yeah they had to test and certify but didn't they just grab parts of the shelf.

FCA used the Hellcat engine, but since the TH is AWD, there was a good bit of engineering that had to be done. They had to be sure it wouldn't grenade the transfer case.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by BMR Sales

WUT? Jeep builds the TrackHawk and sells them all! Porsche, Bentley, BMW all build HP SUVS.

Those are all super super low volume variants. Think about how many mom-mobile Grand Cherokees FCA sells compared to Trackhawks.


Not hard to sell them all when you only build a handful.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by DRKS1D3

FCA used the Hellcat engine, but since the TH is AWD, there was a good bit of engineering that had to be done. They had to be sure it wouldn't grenade the transfer case.

touche

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by lbls1

I still feel that Chevy and GM cut too quickly and too deep into the midsized SUV and pick-up lines in '08. At least Ford kept a lot of the themes from their old Explorer SUVs and grafted them onto the newer platform. TrailBlazer and Envoy were (IMO) at their peak when they were cut.

The GMT360s were due for an update, but GM eliminated the platform. GM realized later that they cut too deeply into the truck and suv platform, so that is why Canyon and Colorado re-appeared. The Traverse is an ok people mover, but its nowhere near the ruggedness and towing capability of the old TrailBlazer. We are also missing the niche market that's covered by Jeep Grand Cherokee. GM and Chevy have good ideas, but they have made costly mistakes along the way.

I'm not that familiar with the older lineup but to me they seem to be making a big resurgence in the SUV market while satisfying the trends in the market currently. Most people want good fuel economy, comfort,convenience and tech. It would be nice to get some special performance or off-road oriented SUVS and I wouldn't put it far off.

Believe it or not where I live the Grand Cherokee is seen as a luxury status car, lol.
....

Edit: Looks like we are getting an off-road SUV in the future:

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/06/...ort-indicates/

[lbls1]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

I'm not that familiar with the older lineup but to me they seem to be making a big resurgence in the SUV market while satisfying the trends in the market currently. Most people want good fuel economy, comfort,convenience and tech. It would be nice to get some special performance or off-road oriented SUVS and I wouldn't put it far off.

Believe it or not where I live the Grand Cherokee is seen as a luxury status car, lol.
....

Edit: Looks like we are getting an off-road SUV in the future:

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/06/...ort-indicates/

The crossover market seems to be thriving, which is really generating the heat in the overall SUV market. Grand Cherokee, Tahoe and Suburban remain as staple favorites, but like you hinted at earlier, these are premium vehicles that requires a bit of coin to get into as a new vehicle.

That is a great link you provided. I can only hope that GMC can really pull this variant off. It looks like they are carrying out the plans they had for the gmt360 before they were cancelled. I really hope the styling will be on point.