[protovack]

GM sells lots of cars, in the US and all around the world. The Equinox sells just as many as any CRV or Rav-4. And remember that the Equinox is on the same platform D2XX as the Cruze. They sold just as many Cruzes as Hyundai sold Elantras. And they sell bazillions of trucks and large crossover/SUVs and these are highly profitable markets. I'm as surprised as anyone that GM is killing the Cruze as it sold tons of units and was doing really well. Sales numbers were not the problem. Profit margin may have been. Now they are making a bet on the next 5 years and hoping it pays off, no different than any other company selling anything.

GM makes a solid product right now. I just got a new 2.0T Equinox and it is one of the best vehicles I've ever driven. I like it a ton better than my old Forester! My K2 Silverado has been bullet proof. And my SS 1LE puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. And because I could easily add a flex fuel kit I'll likely be able to drive it well into the future after petroleum gets real expensive.

This latest development is not surprising nor is it negative, except for the families depending on those jobs. And I feel for them, I really do. However, that is a separate discussion than whether it is a good plan for GM and the average car buying American.

And, the Camaro is not getting axed. It was a huge success for GM from 2010-present and there is absolutely no reason for them to cancel it at this point.

[Chazzz]

The Lordstown Ohio assembly plant is only operating one shift due to lack of demand for the Cruze, which is sadly the case for most GM passenger cars including the Camaro. Having an assembly plant shut down two out of three shifts is simply not going to be a profitable long term business strategy. As far as SUV quality and interior space goes, the high ride height while great for visability simply doesn’t allow for spirited driving. I really hate to see the demise of passenger cars happening right before our very eyes....Kinda Sad.... I would personally choose a fun to drive hatchback over a raised SUV on the same chassis every day. Unfortunately I am in the minority and we are in real danger of the demise of passenger cars as we have known them...

[samurai]

GM is in a really bad place right now. Take a look at the Q3 sales of some of the canned cars compared to 2017:
Chevrolet Cruze sales decreased 27.41 percent to 31,971 units
Chevrolet Impala sales decreased 16.16 percent to 16,290 units
Buick LaCrosse sales decreased 31.15 percent to 2,290 units
Cadillac CT6 sales decreased 13 percent to 2,376 units


Some cars are even worse:
Chevrolet Bolt EV sales decreased 41.15 percent to 3,949 units
Chevrolet Malibu sales decreased 45.79 percent to 31,041 units
Cadillac XT5 sales decreased 24.69 percent to 15,093 units
GMC Acadia sales decreased 49.65 percent to 13,485 units


For comparison:
Chevrolet Camaro sales decreased 15.8 percent to 14,448 units
Chevrolet Corvette sales decreased 10.51 percent to 4,639 units


They really have to fix their whole company. From really bad receiving designs (new Camaro and Silverado, the Curze and Malibu refreshs are not an improvement either) to really bad marketing, it's clear why people are more interested in other cars. To this date there's no good stockfootage for journalists about the new Camaro, not even a single driving footage clip. It's like they don't want to get people exited for their cars.

[madscotsman]

Whoever is creating and approving their commercials should be fired. They are the worse car commercials i've ever seen. Especially the ones with the gasping, amazement, and fake outbursts of joy as "real people" see and overreact to the cheap plastic interiors of their cars. C'mon man who really acts like that when they get inside ANY car, let alone a cheaply mass-produced one. I mean, I like my Camaro, but plastic door panels dashboards and center consoles don't make me ecstatic.

[aland12345]

No one has mentioned the Higher interest rates. I'm sure that is cutting sales. But GM is top heavy on sedans and yes, people don't want cheap plastic interiors and engines that automatically stall at every red light. (god i hate that). Gas is relatively cheap, and people want a bigger heavier vehicle that will fit the whole family. Not a spastic little 4 cylinder WITH A BIG TURBO designed to meet EPA gas mileage standards, not full size Americans. Thank God a few of us still care about performance fun to drive cars and as the comedian Gallagher used to say WITH STYLE!

[Cmax]

Originally Posted by madscotsman

Whoever is creating and approving their commercials should be fired. They are the worse car commercials i've ever seen. Especially the ones with the gasping, amazement, and fake outbursts of joy as "real people" see and overreact to the cheap plastic interiors of their cars. C'mon man who really acts like that when they get inside ANY car, let alone a cheaply mass-produced one. I mean, I like my Camaro, but plastic door panels dashboards and center consoles don't make me ecstatic.

I might agree just a little, but when I see that guy in the drivers seat point to the dash and say, ‘how is that even possible’, I think he is ooking at the patio all overhead view of the vehicle. It’s like a drone is hovering over the car. Great for parking..... the part I agree with it that they don’t show the feature but an excited person.

Sell the car! Features, advantages and benefits. Show a ZL1 throwing road gravel at the little pony on a gt500.

[Klayman]

Originally Posted by DorkMissile

IMO it really has nothing to do with the type if car, it is the fact that the domestic car companies cant make as good of commodity vehicle as the Japanese or Koreans. Not saying they cant make a good car, GM can make a good $40k 2 door performance car, but they cant make as good of a $20k 4 door sedan.

Throw in the fact that the deprecation on a domestic sedan is 2-3x that of a Japanese or European equivalent.

In 2015 I bought a new Sierra 1500 SLE Z71. Sticker was $43k, bought it for $38k. 3 years later I went to sell it and I struggled to get $23k for it on the open market (not a scratch on it with 24,000 miles). That was 46% in 3 years with VERY low miles.

Previous vehicle was a 2013 4Runner SR5 (base model). Stickered for $36k, paid $36k. Drove it two years and sold it for $31k with 42,000 miles on it. Put $4000 cash in my pocket after I paid off the loan.

Previous vehicle to that - 2011 Golf TDI. Bought for $27k (Demo with 3500 miles on it). Drove it 2 years and put 40k miles on it. Sold it for $23k.

Regardless of performance, longevity, etc....... the financial consequences of buying a domestic vehicle are significantly higher than their competitors. Hence HUGE rebates to help offset it.

Now I know this is a futile place to make these statements (on a Camaro forum) and it may be a bit hypocritical as I am a Camaro owner, but for the average person looking for an average car to do average things with minimal depreciation and lowest cost of ownership then I would tell you to buy a Camery over an Impala every day.

FYI - I grew up in Michigan. Both of my grandfathers, my dad, my uncles, my cousins and my friends all have worked for or work for GM. I have a brother in law who owns a Chevy dealership. I qualify for every GM employee discount you can get on a new vehicle, and the last car I bought for my wife was close to MSRP on a Forester.

I had a 2005 Dodge diesel 4 door pickup.....Bought it for 16k, used it 4 years and did regular maintenance on it, sold it for 15.5k, best full size truck I ever owned.

What people are willing to pay for the want/need is based on what they think, whether what they think is true or not.

I daily drive a chevy blazer that runs great, easy to maintain and has small repair issues from time to time.....has 250k miles on it.

Had a 4 cylinder chevy s10 that finally blew the head gasket at just over 300k miles.....(had toyota's that did not last that long...all well maintained)

I've owned toyotas, datsuns, nissans, hondas, fords, chevys, dodge, chrysler, GMC....brand new and used, they are all fairly good quality vehicles compared to what was manufactured when I was younger. Chrysler is probably the only vehicle I would not consider buying again.

I have likes and dislikes for each brand....

[the_swiSS]

They can discontinue all they want, I've got my Camaro already

[01pewterz28]

Originally Posted by samurai

GM is in a really bad place right now. Take a look at the Q3 sales of some of the canned cars compared to 2017:
Chevrolet Cruze sales decreased 27.41 percent to 31,971 units
Chevrolet Impala sales decreased 16.16 percent to 16,290 units
Buick LaCrosse sales decreased 31.15 percent to 2,290 units
Cadillac CT6 sales decreased 13 percent to 2,376 units


Some cars are even worse:
Chevrolet Bolt EV sales decreased 41.15 percent to 3,949 units
Chevrolet Malibu sales decreased 45.79 percent to 31,041 units
Cadillac XT5 sales decreased 24.69 percent to 15,093 units
GMC Acadia sales decreased 49.65 percent to 13,485 units


For comparison:
Chevrolet Camaro sales decreased 15.8 percent to 14,448 units
Chevrolet Corvette sales decreased 10.51 percent to 4,639 units


They really have to fix their whole company. From really bad receiving designs (new Camaro and Silverado, the Curze and Malibu refreshs are not an improvement either) to really bad marketing, it's clear why people are more interested in other cars. To this date there's no good stockfootage for journalists about the new Camaro, not even a single driving footage clip. It's like they don't want to get people exited for their cars.

Add to this a I was at the auto show over Thanksgiving and I finally saw the new Silverado. Loved the new design outside the inside was nothing new, the price tag for the High Country was crazy. Dodge was next to the Chevrolet Display and I will say this the 1500 Ram blew the new Silverado out of the water the Ram was $2k more but that was the cost of the power assist steps but the Ram had far more cargo capacity, interior storage and the tech alone blew the Silverado out of the water.

Next I looked at the new Ford Excursion it blew the Suburban out of the water as well with the tech and the interior finish.

I am not in the market for a pickup truck but if I was I would jump ship to the Ram 1500.

Now I will be in the market for a new replacement for my wifes 07 Suburban and the Excursion is a very strong contender.

I have never owned anything but GM and this could be the 1st time I have ever jumped ship to another brand. GM is really lacking on the tech and comfort level in the new vehicles.

My 17 SS convertible I love the tech and comfort well above my 5th Gen and much nicer than the Mustang.

GM's biggest problem is price they no longer offer the good discounts and people took notice and go with the deals that are available from other manufactures.

[camaroJD]

I just hope we see some great incentives in December...

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by camaroJD

I just hope we see some great incentives in December...

Those incentives that we all love to take advantage of as a buyer are deadly for three reasons at least.

1. They indicate that the car/model being incentivized to sell is NOT selling and therefore there is a lack of demand. That says a LOT.

2. They indicate the car/model being incentivized is OVERPRICED which may be the main reason it isn't selling to begin with or, the features being offered on said car/model are more attractive or 'able to be accepted' when a lower purchase price is offered via an incentive. See #1 above...

3. Incentives KILL resale values on the cars already sold. As if normal depreciation is not enough, if you buy a car/truck and get a whopping 20% etc off, guess what just happened to the same used car/truck you might own of the same or similar year, etc?


As a buyer, yes - incentives are great. But they do not bode well for anyone or the car model itself if a manufacturer has to offer an incentive to move the car.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by 01pewterz28

... the Ram had far more cargo capacity, interior storage and the tech alone blew the Silverado out of the water.

Next I looked at the new Ford Excursion it blew the Suburban out of the water as well with the tech and the interior finish. ...

GMs new trucks are nice overall...solid offerings, but their interior redesign doesn't cut it compared to the others...agree. RAM is the seemingly "luxury" option for sure but for no more money.

As for the full size SUVs....all new GM SUVs coming next year. The current ones, while still looking OK on the outside, are getting stale on the inside. So of course the new Excursion should be nicer on the inside. We'll see how they compare next year.

[IAI80]

One article I read said that as a rule of thumb, if an automotive plant is operating at less than 80% of production capacity, it is losing money. The Lordstown plant is going to be around 31% for 2018. All plants combined in North America, GM is running at about 70% right now. Not sustainable obviously unless we want Government Motors II.

[Airfuel]

Big deal.
Has happened before and will happen again.......life goes on.