[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by Lafourche1

Downside?

Not getting the satisfaction of proving him wrong time and time again and watching him self implode. No other reason haha

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I don't need evidence to formulate an opinion. And for the record, it certainly got your attention along with others. You certainly didn't have to entertain my opinion. You kept going back and forth right along with me. Probably because you enjoyed it. Anyway, who's to say that we're not getting this trans info because the 180 debate dragged on as long as it did? Thanks to me. You're welcome. Granted, oldman may have popped up at some point regardless and shared this knowledge. Or, granted, maybe he got sick of me talking shit (admittedly) and decided to come out with this info. Or maybe all the talking about it motivated him to look it up. Or all of that. Or none of it. Only he can answer it. But my ego and sense of extreme self-importance tells me that I had something to do with it. If I let it go way back when then who knows. Yes, I'm that great.

And what about my comments on the 180 debate is different than anything I've been saying for the past 3 years? I state opinions. But by the time I state them, to me they are facts. And I speak as if they are facts. Because I am confident and fully convinced that I'm right. So we got new information. According to you tho, since it hasn't come from Ford, it is not a fact.

And one thing. Quoted from oldman "The ZL1 Camaro has a far more stable metal 2 piece driveshaft. So driveshaft speed is not an issue.

So stability did have a part. So I was (partially) correct.


So that still doesn't rule out that the suspension can't handle those speeds. Maybe Ford knew they were capping it so they decided to not even bother with the suspension for those speeds since it'll likely never got hat fast anyway. Yes, that is an OPINION.


I will repeat (can't believe I'm sticking up for Ford again)...I do not think the GT500 in itself is a failure. Even (oh God I can't believe I'm about to say this) the CF version. The problem is that Ford tried to take on too much with one car and didn't have the time to do it. They cut corners, wasted time and money with the DCT (should have just went with the A10), threw CF stuff at it to compensate for the weight, apparently didn't give it efficient (enough) cooling, and threw a super aggressive tire on it which the car is too heavy and too fast for. They should have left GM alone with the cornering crown and left DOdge alone with the quarter mile crown. They should have met somewhere in the middle...just beat the ZL1 in a straight line, beat the HC/RE/Demon around a track, keep the price affordable, throw options at it, call it a day. That would have been enough. But since it is compared to the ZL1/E and HC Family, they are coming up short. Take away those cars and by itself it shines. One on one it can keep up with the HC in a straight line and beat the HC around a track. One on one it...well, it is a little faster than the ZL1/E in a straight line and it can keep up around a track. So not for nothin, it isn't a total failure. The price just sucks. And Ford apparently can't build a car around a transmission.

I agree with your last paragraph assessment of the GT500 minus the cooling and not enough time parts. They had plenty of time 3+ years, they just couldn't pull it off. The rest really speaks to the type of person you are!

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

We're BFFs again.

It's always a good debate with you

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I didn't have any serious problems with the 13. It was more in my head after personally splicing into the wiring harness under the fuse block and having the front off several times. It was a brand new car so it just felt wrong.

I daily my cars so I've been thinking... Once this SS hits the age that I'd normally sell it, why not keep it and turn it into a true track day car? Financially, that would be the best time.

Your ZL1 isn't new so this too might get be the right time to go for it.

I think that is a good idea for you to do. Especially since it would be great as a track day car AND a DD. Any ideas on modifications just yet or are you not that far yet?

Yea my ZL1 certainly is not new anymore. 3 years and 19K miles. However, it still feels brand new. I thought by now I would be tired of it. But I'm not. The only drawback on the ZL1 (and all 6th Gen Camaros for that matter) is the price to mod them. The fueling upgrades alone needed to get me in the 900+ RWHP range will cost over $10K if I go with the 2650. On top of needing a cam and head work. All in all I think this will be a $20K endeavor. However, the other more expensive cars are much cheaper to mod. It seems like either way you're gonna be paying about the same money to mod any of these cars. You're either getting the car much cheaper and spending more on mods...or you're paying more for the car but it has excellent mod-ability. Perhaps the absolute best way to go is with a used low mileage example and mod that.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Wow that is some great technical insight! Thanks for the education.



Yes that is correct and lets just leave this topic on that note.



That's fine to have an OPINION. My problem is spouting it as FACT with no proof.

Basically, the 500 needs to be at redline in 5th to get over 180, it then drops down over 100 HP in 6th gear and combine that with the 6th gear ratio basically you would need an insane amount of runway to keep gaining any speed. So yeah I would say it's capped at 180 to protect the engine and driveline.

I think assuming it'll keep gaining in 6th is obviously a guess and wishful thinking. For all we know its like the zl1 m6, it redlines in 5th and then 6th is just to steep for it to gain speed, that's my guess.

I think the m7 zr1 tops out in 6th but I'm pretty sure it doesnt reach the top of 6th.

While it sucks that it only goes 180, definately a bad look for the car and the engineering, it is what it is and at the end of the day isn't that big of a deal in reality. The m6 zl1 tops out at 174ish which is pretty sad too regardless of the a10 doing 200ish.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I think that is a good idea for you to do. Especially since it would be great as a track day car AND a DD. Any ideas on modifications just yet or are you not that far yet?

Yea my ZL1 certainly is not new anymore. 3 years and 19K miles. However, it still feels brand new. I thought by now I would be tired of it. But I'm not. The only drawback on the ZL1 (and all 6th Gen Camaros for that matter) is the price to mod them. The fueling upgrades alone needed to get me in the 900+ RWHP range will cost over $10K if I go with the 2650. On top of needing a cam and head work. All in all I think this will be a $20K endeavor. However, the other more expensive cars are much cheaper to mod. It seems like either way you're gonna be paying about the same money to mod any of these cars. You're either getting the car much cheaper and spending more on mods...or you're paying more for the car but it has excellent mod-ability. Perhaps the absolute best way to go is with a used low mileage example and mod that.

I think the Zl1 is the cheapest car to mod from mild to wild.
1) it nas a drivetrain that is strong vs say a GT auto (probably my second choice for easy and responsiveness to mods) The GT has a limited shaft strength in relation to HP So shafts: Zl1 and 1LE

2) diff, Dodge: marginal and aluminum housing SRT and Demon, the R/T diff can't be considered and on some R/T is open anyway. The Ford 8.8 is a excellent rear but at some power lever, sooner or later the 8.8 diff will become shacky. advantage ZL1, 1LE, then the Ford 8.8.

3) forged pistons, and valves, and CR designed for boost. Here the ZL1 (outside the Demon / Hellcat) is the only engine made for boost. The Demon / Hellcat, hemi maybe even a better engine vs the LT4 but they have a 400 to 500 lbs weight penalty that IMO can't be overcome by a stronger block and slightly better head design. The 5.0 IMO gets expensive to mod, so once you past the limits of the stock long back the price curve is "through the roof"
advantage ZL1, then say to 800 engine I think the 5.0 is a solid choice to 800 above 800 I partial and would take either a LT1 with drop-ins or the LT4 out of the box. thus it would be ZL1, then 5.0 to a point, then back to LT4 or LT1.

4) fuel delivery. I don't really think my fuel upgrades were that expensive for what can support 1000 HP and there were easy to install. Ford's dual inject I would assume has a big advantage. Dodge probably is just as cheap to mod as the Ford, BUT it does not get the DIbenefits. Advantage Ford on price. GM offers the same performance so tie.

5) weight as noted it looks like it goes Alpha, Mustang... and at a very distant 3rd is the 1986 Benz that thinks it is a Muscle car: Challenger.

6) true street handling with summer tires: ZL1, 1LE, GT350, SS and then the GT, the dodge well um the widebody... but not really. Clear winner the Alpa.

Nutshell the ZL1 seems to offer the most platform to start from. Then the auto GT (less torque and good HP potential on the stock long block), a good combination for something that can last, closely followed by the 1le and then the auto SS.


This is all in regards to a fast street with DR or 1/4 mile that is also a DD. Once we get to the trailer queen stuff, the guy that is
1) lucky
2) has deep pockets
3) has the most compromised DD
will be the faster car

Nutshell again, the Zl1 ( especially the A10)from mild to blot on (including blower upgrade) makes for a pretty nice DD to a decent drag car that retains its DD ability. The base GT auto makes for a reasonable platform, but at some point it will need a forged engine, shafts, and maybe stronger diff (depending on gear ratio). For I need a manual: Zl1,1LE, SS, GT and it you got some deep pockets GT350. I got bucks and don't want to fool with shops and specs: Demon.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by oldman

I think the Zl1 is the cheapest car to mod from mild to wild.
1) it nas a drivetrain that is strong vs say a GT auto (probably my second choice for easy and responsiveness to mods) The GT has a limited shaft strength in relation to HP So shafts: Zl1 and 1LE

2) diff, Dodge: marginal and aluminum housing SRT and Demon, the R/T diff can't be considered and on some R/T is open anyway. The Ford 8.8 is a excellent rear but at some power lever, sooner or later the 8.8 diff will become shacky. advantage ZL1, 1LE, then the Ford 8.8.

3) forged pistons, and valves, and CR designed for boost. Here the ZL1 (outside the Demon / Hellcat) is the only engine made for boost. The Demon / Hellcat, hemi maybe even a better engine vs the LT4 but they have a 400 to 500 lbs weight penalty that IMO can't be overcome by a stronger block and slightly better head design. The 5.0 IMO gets expensive to mod, so once you past the limits of the stock long back the price curve is "through the roof"
advantage ZL1, then say to 800 engine I think the 5.0 is a solid choice to 800 above 800 I partial and would take either a LT1 with drop-ins or the LT4 out of the box. thus it would be ZL1, then 5.0 to a point, then back to LT4 or LT1.

4) fuel delivery. I don't really think my fuel upgrades were that expensive for what can support 1000 HP and there were easy to install. Ford's dual inject I would assume has a big advantage. Dodge probably is just as cheap to mod as the Ford, BUT it does not get the DIbenefits. Advantage Ford on price. GM offers the same performance so tie.

5) weight as noted it looks like it goes Alpha, Mustang... and at a very distant 3rd is the 1986 Benz that thinks it is a Muscle car: Challenger.

6) true street handling with summer tires: ZL1, 1LE, GT350, SS and then the GT, the dodge well um the widebody... but not really. Clear winner the Alpa.

Nutshell the ZL1 seems to offer the most platform to start from. Then the auto GT (less torque and good HP potential on the stock long block), a good combination for something that can last, closely followed by the 1le and then the auto SS.


This is all in regards to a fast street with DR or 1/4 mile that is also a DD. Once we get to the trailer queen stuff, the guy that is
1) lucky
2) has deep pockets
3) has the most compromised DD
will be the faster car

Nutshell again, the Zl1 ( especially the A10)from mild to blot on (including blower upgrade) makes for a pretty nice DD to a decent drag car that retains its DD ability. The base GT auto makes for a reasonable platform, but at some point it will need a forged engine, shafts, and maybe stronger diff (depending on gear ratio). For I need a manual: Zl1,1LE, SS, GT and it you got some deep pockets GT350. I got bucks and don't want to fool with shops and specs: Demon.

A plus on the Camaro side of things is that you typically won't upgrade much. For the SS, slap a blower on and you're good to go. For a GT you have to upgrade a lot of extra shit to make it reliable and so it can handle the boost.

[bradmo9]

Both SS and GT you can slap a blower on and your good to go. Don't know where your getting all this extra shit from.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by bradmo9

Both SS and GT you can slap a blower on and your good to go. Don't know where your getting all this extra shit from.

You're*

[Lafourche1]

I will just point out that a larger portion of the owners of the SS and ZL1 Alpha platform cars will likely keep them stock. There are a number of reasons, including warranty concerns, tracking the car (see first item, too) and the weird idea that some of us think they are fast enough, stock.

In the used market I, for one, would never buy a car that has had any mechanical modifications made to it.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Lafourche1

I will just point out that a larger portion of the owners of the SS and ZL1 Alpha platform cars will likely keep them stock. There are a number of reasons, including warranty concerns, tracking the car (see first item, too) and the weird idea that some of us think they are fast enough, stock.

In the used market I, for one, would never buy a car that has had any mechanical modifications made to it.

Now that you put it that way, I think this applies to me too. CAI and exhaust, I'd probably still buy the car. Boost, cams, intakes, axles? Nope. Hope you enjoyed it, but I'm moving on.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by bradmo9

Both SS and GT you can slap a blower on and your good to go. Don't know where your getting all this extra shit from.

Let me know when you "slap" it on Obviously I'm talking about people making serious power, want to drag race it. The ZL1 is about the only one mentioned that you can get anywhere close to that performance envelope by upgrading the blower, as the drivetrain is completely over-engineered. The R/T auto does not even have a LSD, and even if it did the diff is marginal from the factory so are the axles, driveshaft, subframe bushings, and even if these are upgraded 265 tires (255 stock) are about as big as you can get back there on the 4500 lbs car, you think your putting that into the 11s on normal rubber? Why do you think the widebody is so popular for the drag crowd?

I don't know why I even bother with post like yours, as you have NOT A CLUE what is needed to DD and then 1/4 mile a car in the real world. Have fun with your F150.

BTW, almost all Muscle cars (especially the ones on this thread) would benefit from a set of 888R or similar compound rubber, before ANY power mod.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Now that you put it that way, I think this applies to me too. CAI and exhaust, I'd probably still buy the car. Boost, cams, intakes, axles? Nope. Hope you enjoyed it, but I'm moving on.

I'm keeping mine bone stock for warranty purposes. I've never been one to mod for power anyway. If I mod it is usually suspension, wheel or stopping related. I do wish GM would make the OEM LT4 CAI for the ZL1, like they do for the LT4 in the Vette. I would add that if they backed it up warranty wise etc.

[oldman]

C8, I'm with you, I'd get the base C8.... and maybe years later, I'd do an OEM header second hand, polished ceramic coat. Off the floor: ceramic wax and oh tint would be my only mods PERIOD. The headers are that beautiful...not like I have an exhaust fetish or anything.

The manual SS shafts are iffy with stock power and decent rubber / launch, I believe that GM performance shafts (dealer installed) will keep your warranty intact. I think Ford has something similar, don't think Dodge does it (I had a supercharged Challenger).

[joe944]

Originally Posted by minn19

I'm keeping mine bone stock for warranty purposes. I've never been one to mod for power anyway. If I mod it is usually suspension, wheel or stopping related. I do wish GM would make the OEM LT4 CAI for the ZL1, like they do for the LT4 in the Vette. I would add that if they backed it up warranty wise etc.

I put a catback on mine, the only thing I think the car really needs. They are a tad too quiet in stock form.

Biggest reason I went ZL1 was wanting to avoid the mod bug. It's much easier to buy a car like this and drive it in Kommifornia than dealing with a modified car.