[Rodan]

Originally Posted by Silveradoss573

In the end, 3 out of the 4 of them would go with the Gt500 and that will stand out to people watching more than anything else on this review.

Of course they did... it's the shiny new thing. That's what moto-journalists pick.

IMHO new tires on the GT500 might have given it the "win", but by how much? Not much, I'm betting. Not enough to justify the extra $40k.

I can't wait to see all the excuses and bashing on Randy over at M6G...

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by rocket403

We know that the Challenger is not a Track car and should loose in that test just as we know that at the Drag Strip the Challenger is at home so line them up test with stock rubber and then with the same DR and any other minor tweeks see what a good driver can do in each.

In the same way we know the ZL1 will lose a drag race on a prepped surface, we know the RE has no chance on the road course. Makes for good entertainment though.

Originally Posted by Engyj

Hey guys, James here from Throttle House.


Just to clear some things up about the tires, the GT500 supplied was from Ford USA. And we were incredibly disappointed when we saw how not-fresh they were. From a PR perspective, Ford made a bit of a doozy here, because really the GT500 would have won with fresh tires, as Randy stated in the video. Thomas and I make these things happen as only the two of us. Between flying Randy and Jason out, organizing the track, the insurance, the cars, the accommodation and everything else, some things are going to slip through the cracks in terms of logistics.



We hope it never happens but we don't have a budget like bigger outlets do, or the flexibility to switch dates. It's just a shame that this was something Ford could control, and didn't. Perhaps they underestimated the exposure of the channel? I don't know. But like you (and a million mustang owners), I wish the tires were fresher, and I was upset on the day to find they weren't.

I alluded to Randy's comment earlier - and am still surprised a fresh set would make up the 0.95 sec difference at Willow for the GT500 CFTP.

That said, that would only equal the much cheaper ZLE A10 time...hardly an accomplishment given the GT500 price point, power advantage, and DCT. For the 20K difference, it shouldn't even be in question that it will lap significantly faster than a ZLE...from what we are seeing so far, this is not the case.

Thanks for joining the conversation here, it is much appreciated, and the video was well done - thanks to your co-hosts as well

Originally Posted by joe944

Would have been nice if they had taken the approach in Camissa's other video and put the same brand new rubber on all 3.

The GT500 keeping up with the 1LE on a softer ride is impressive. If dollars are not in the equation, I would definitely consider it over the ZL1.

When it comes time to put your money down, though, hard to argue with the ZL1.

^^ Thanks for putting the video together Throttle House dudes. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

Agreed - I really like same tire, same track, same driver, same day comparisons. About as level a playing field as you can make it.

Originally Posted by shaffe

That is my biggest take away out of every review. The ZL1 and ZLE is an insane value, and insane performer.

I hope to see some more tests with the base 500 and Zl1.


I think it's safe to say GM wins this gen performance wise and performance per dollar wise. Nothing you can do but tip your cap to them

Also agreed, but you and I tend to do that

[Turkish01]

I thought the GT500 CFTP was faster then a viper acr...

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Sort of lol according to R&T the press GT had some problems so Ford sent another one with Billy Johnson and that's why they set a time at VIR.

And I agree with you said about the ZL1 and ZLE times, Just thought it was funny how Blaq loves to say the GT500 has every advantage and then in this test for the Camaro they used a different car to give it a better shot bc they didn't think the 1LE would do good lol

Agreed, it would have been nice to have a base gt500 for the roll race as well but I understand money and resources are a thing lol

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

In the same way we know the ZL1 will lose a drag race on a prepped surface, we know the RE has no chance on the road course. Makes for good entertainment though.



I alluded to Randy's comment earlier - and am still surprised a fresh set would make up the 0.95 sec difference at Willow for the GT500 CFTP.

That said, that would only equal the much cheaper ZLE A10 time...hardly an accomplishment given the GT500 price point, power advantage, and DCT. For the 20K difference, it shouldn't even be in question that it will lap significantly faster than a ZLE...from what we are seeing so far, this is not the case.

Thanks for joining the conversation here, it is much appreciated, and the video was well done - thanks to your co-hosts as well



Agreed - I really like same tire, same track, same driver, same day comparisons. About as level a playing field as you can make it.



Also agreed, but you and I tend to do that

Yep.

Originally Posted by Turkish01

I thought the GT500 CFTP was faster then a viper acr...

LOL that was in a MT article, they called it a supercar kille like the ACR.

So 1. we see it is not

2. anyone that thought it was faster than an ACR needs their head examined

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Turkish01

I thought the GT500 CFTP was faster then a viper acr...

It set a faster lap at one track on different days with different drivers and people got over excited.

[TheRealJA105]

Can't wait to get home and actually watch this video!

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Didn't ford release vir lap times for the gt, then were reminded why they don't do that?

Also while they say the zle had no chance, that's not factually true. The zle and zl1 and only separated by 2 tenths or so according to most stats. The zl1 has a better chance but it's not a huge difference. I do agree that using two zl1s wasn't my favorite part, they should have stuck to the zle the whole test.

The gt500 would do better with new tires, but if two seconds better remains to be seen. Especially after a few hotlaps.

Haha yeah Ford: GT VIR lap reco..... GM hold my beer, what were you guys saying?
Not seeing the video yet, I say they should have run both the ZL1 and ZLE.
Is it 2 seconds or .95?

Originally Posted by Engyj

Hey guys, James here from Throttle House.
Just to clear some things up about the tires, the GT500 supplied was from Ford USA. And we were incredibly disappointed when we saw how not-fresh they were. From a PR perspective, Ford made a bit of a doozy here, because really the GT500 would have won with fresh tires, as Randy stated in the video. Thomas and I make these things happen as only the two of us. Between flying Randy and Jason out, organizing the track, the insurance, the cars, the accommodation and everything else, some things are going to slip through the cracks in terms of logistics.
We hope it never happens but we don't have a budget like bigger outlets do, or the flexibility to switch dates. It's just a shame that this was something Ford could control, and didn't. Perhaps they underestimated the exposure of the channel? I don't know. But like you (and a million mustang owners), I wish the tires were fresher, and I was upset on the day to find they weren't.

I tend to believe Randy, but idk here...

Originally Posted by Rodan

Of course they did... it's the shiny new thing. That's what moto-journalists pick.
IMHO new tires on the GT500 might have given it the "win", but by how much? Not much, I'm betting. Not enough to justify the extra $40k.
I can't wait to see all the excuses and bashing on Randy over at M6G...

Right on

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by Engyj

Hey guys, James here from Throttle House.


Just to clear some things up about the tires, the GT500 supplied was from Ford USA. And we were incredibly disappointed when we saw how not-fresh they were. From a PR perspective, Ford made a bit of a doozy here, because really the GT500 would have won with fresh tires, as Randy stated in the video. Thomas and I make these things happen as only the two of us. Between flying Randy and Jason out, organizing the track, the insurance, the cars, the accommodation and everything else, some things are going to slip through the cracks in terms of logistics.



We hope it never happens but we don't have a budget like bigger outlets do, or the flexibility to switch dates. It's just a shame that this was something Ford could control, and didn't. Perhaps they underestimated the exposure of the channel? I don't know. But like you (and a million mustang owners), I wish the tires were fresher, and I was upset on the day to find they weren't.

How bad were they before Randy got into the car for laps? What was the corner speed comparison between the Camaro and Mustang?

1:27.2 - ZL1 1LE
1:28.15 - GT500 CFTP
1:32.59 - Red Eye

Maybe 1:26.2 with fresh tires?

[Realist]

I luv seeing these types of videos, especially with my ZL1 sitting in the garage on trickle charge. The ZL1 is very impressive and far more affordable. A few seconds makes no difference to me, I bought my manual ZL1 knowing the A10 is quicker. If we are going to put them all on similar tires, I don’t see why we can’t put some $’s into minor mods into ZL1 since the price difference is huge and doing other comparisons. I like all 3 cars, but have the right one in my garage. Still unfortunate no manual offered in a couple of them.

[Engyj]

Originally Posted by Mountain

How bad were they before Randy got into the car for laps? What was the corner speed comparison between the Camaro and Mustang?

1:27.2 - ZL1 1LE
1:28.15 - GT500 CFTP
1:32.59 - Red Eye

Maybe 1:26.5 with fresh tires?

About this bad.








But yeah possibly 1-2 seconds faster on fresh. Unfortunately, the life of a cup2 is short lived when attached to a GT500. Its heavy, and wears down hard by the third lap. So this was as close to science as we could get with the resources we have. We try to control every variable we can, always.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Realist

I luv seeing these types of videos, especially with my ZL1 sitting in the garage on trickle charge. The ZL1 is very impressive and far more affordable. A few seconds makes no difference to me, I bought my manual ZL1 knowing the A10 is quicker. If we are going to put them all on similar tires, I don’t see why we can’t put some $’s into minor mods into ZL1 since the price difference is huge and doing other comparisons. I like all 3 cars, but have the right one in my garage. Still unfortunate no manual offered in a couple of them.

This is pretty much where I am too. I can buy the ZL1, likely in the high $50K range, and have $25K+ left over comparing it to buying a GT500 @ MSRP.

That is a lot of money for consumables at the track and driving lessons.

Buying a GT500 would put me in a place where I would be sacrificing both of those things, so it just doesn't make much sense, and that's talking base cars not ZLE or CFTP where the gap is much bigger.

The 500 is an awesome car, just way too expensive for what you get. Can't even get climate controlled recaros or a heated steering wheel, and I am way to spoiled to give that up HAHAHAHA

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Engyj

Hey guys, James here from Throttle House.


Just to clear some things up about the tires, the GT500 supplied was from Ford USA. And we were incredibly disappointed when we saw how not-fresh they were. From a PR perspective, Ford made a bit of a doozy here, because really the GT500 would have won with fresh tires, as Randy stated in the video. Thomas and I make these things happen as only the two of us. Between flying Randy and Jason out, organizing the track, the insurance, the cars, the accommodation and everything else, some things are going to slip through the cracks in terms of logistics.



We hope it never happens but we don't have a budget like bigger outlets do, or the flexibility to switch dates. It's just a shame that this was something Ford could control, and didn't. Perhaps they underestimated the exposure of the channel? I don't know. But like you (and a million mustang owners), I wish the tires were fresher, and I was upset on the day to find they weren't.

Hi James. Thanks for your clarification. I am replying but please do not take my reply as offensive. It might come off a bit passionate but it is with all due respect.

Not for nothin and far be it from me to criticize anyone, but as a professional, you guys being the professionals, if that was the case then you should not have ran the GT500. You don't race a car in a condition where it can't win, then lose, then claim it would have won if only. That is not fair. Especially not to the ZL1. The ZL1 is not some chump that you can go in unprepared for battle against. It is deserving of a full match with both cars at their best and in their best condition to win. So let me ask, if the GT500 did win, would you guys have been making comments like "Oh wow the GT500 won AND it was on terrible tires! Imagine the gap if it had fresh tires"...?? I am legitimately asking if you would have made statements like that. So basically the tire excuse is like the person who magically has a misfire before a race. So if he loses he won't look bad but if he wins he looks that much better. Again, as professionals you guys should have not ran it. Or BEFORE posting the results you should at the very beginning of the video mentioned the tire scandal and then made a statement to the effect that these results might not reflect what would happen if the 500 had adequate tires.

Another thing, but you don't run a car with 700+ HP around a track on worn out tires. And if I was the vehicle owner there is no way I would let anyone rip my car around in that condition. That is how people end up in a wall, ditch, or worse. Again, it just seems irresponsible. And I doubt a pro like Randy would run a car like the GT500 around a track in that condition. Heck there have been high HP and high performance cars in optimal condition that ended up in terrible situations. And people have died. Why willingly put yourself in that position?

So I gotta say the story sounds legit but in the end there is just too much that tells me it's more of an excuse. If the GT500's tires were that bad then none of these results are accurate and the entire comparison is pretty much contaminated. So basically at this point you guys shouldn't even be calling it a comparison. It was more of a fun casual day at the track.

And quite honestly, if you had reached out to the community I am sure there are some GT500 owners over on the other site that would have gladly put their car up. Or some of us would have donated money to you guys to get some fresh rubber on the car. There are several ways that this could have been avoided. Even Tire Rack or one of the sponsored forum Vendors could have donated you a set for a mention and some advertisement. From the looks of it, you guys had the cars overnight. I am sure that someone somewhere could have gotten a set to you even if they did it personally. So I just don't understand why other avenues weren't explored so the GT500 could be ran properly.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Silveradoss573

Lol only because the guy left like a second later.

In the end, 3 out of the 4 of them would go with the Gt500 and that will stand out to people watching more than anything else on this review.

And that is probably the greater point here, because the differences between these cars is at the extreme margins. So much so that most people who by any of them will never operate at or even near those margins. Given that, the CFTP is the better all around car, the ZL1 is right on its heels, is a much better value with better content (powered, heated cooled seats, HUD, PDR).

As I replied to a similar question on M6G, if someone was giving my choice of these two cars for free....CFTP. If I’m spending my money....ZLE.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Silveradoss573

Lol only because the guy left like a second later.

In the end, 3 out of the 4 of them would go with the Gt500 and that will stand out to people watching more than anything else on this review.

Originally Posted by Rodan

Of course they did... it's the shiny new thing. That's what moto-journalists pick.

IMHO new tires on the GT500 might have given it the "win", but by how much? Not much, I'm betting. Not enough to justify the extra $40k.

I can't wait to see all the excuses and bashing on Randy over at M6G...

Choosing in a H2H and choosing with your wallet are not the same thing.