[18LTLoveIt]

Originally Posted by Cgocifer

How to make your pre refresh look like s better version of the 19 refresh.

Good to add 'Camaro' so average folks know it isn't a Charger.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by 13LTLoveIt

Good to add 'Camaro' so average folks know it isn't a Charger.

This would be futile as such folks cant count above 2 anyway. As in number of doors

[SDG23]

I think that if you took the 2019 and swapped a '16-18 front end, hood and rear end, it would look pretty darn good.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

New design is hideous and even a fanboy site hates it. You don't think that makes the previous style more desirable? Ok shrug.

I understand your logic, and it makes sense on paper. Yes, in about twenty years, when an '18 goes up on the auction block vs a 19, the 18 may very well pull a higher price.

I don't think the market for a new Camaro SS in 2019 is going to change that much. There will be enough people that will like the design, and there will be those that although they don't care for the look, will want the 10 speed auto.

But the used car market won't change too much, if at all. An 18 Camaro SS on the used car lot will still be a used car. Those folks that buy new cars, will go buy a new something else, they will most likely not buy a used Camaro. Those that really want the '16-18 design, are going to go buy a new '18 now and hold on to it for awhile.

This theory was tossed around a lot in the Corvette world at the end of the fifth generation as well as the end of the sixth generation, and in neither case did it turn out as such.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

I understand your logic, and it makes sense on paper. Yes, in about twenty years, when an '18 goes up on the auction block vs a 19, the 18 may very well pull a higher price.

I don't think the market for a new Camaro SS in 2019 is going to change that much. There will be enough people that will like the design, and there will be those that although they don't care for the look, will want the 10 speed auto.

But the used car market won't change too much, if at all. An 18 Camaro SS on the used car lot will still be a used car. Those folks that buy new cars, will go buy a new something else, they will most likely not buy a used Camaro. Those that really want the '16-18 design, are going to go buy a new '18 now and hold on to it for awhile.

This theory was tossed around a lot in the Corvette world at the end of the fifth generation as well as the end of the sixth generation, and in neither case did it turn out as such.

I would be really surprised if in 20 years there was any difference at all. As mentioned earlier, that is suggesting that 1998 vs a 1999 Camaro would have a difference.

At that point these are 20 year old used cars. 20 years is far from being a collector car. To have any significant value you would have to have parked it from day one and even then I doubt a 0 miles Camaro would pull a premium. For the 20 year old used car, you are judging by mileage and condition.

If anything, assuming everyone is correct and the refresh sucks, volumes will be lower for the 2019s and the prices higher 40 years from now.

As for the 2019 being hideous enough to make the 2018 "more valuable" the answer to that has already been given. 2018s are NOT flying off the lots. In fact a month or so ago when I was looking there were a few 2017s on the lot with big discounts.

And the thing we all have to remember is a lot of buyers are not on fan sites daily. I would be very surprised if GM didn't have data that suggests the refresh is appealing to at least some folks. They generally don't do things to just do them. The refresh cost them millions and the expectation is either prevent losing sales or to try and gain sales. It is generally not to lose more.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I would be really surprised if in 20 years there was any difference at all. As mentioned earlier, that is suggesting that 1998 vs a 1999 Camaro would have a difference.

At that point these are 20 year old used cars. 20 years is far from being a collector car. To have any significant value you would have to have parked it from day one and even then I doubt a 0 miles Camaro would pull a premium. For the 20 year old used car, you are judging by mileage and condition.

If anything, assuming everyone is correct and the refresh sucks, volumes will be lower for the 2019s and the prices higher 40 years from now.

As for the 2019 being hideous enough to make the 2018 "more valuable" the answer to that has already been given. 2018s are NOT flying off the lots. In fact a month or so ago when I was looking there were a few 2017s on the lot with big discounts.

And the thing we all have to remember is a lot of buyers are not on fan sites daily. I would be very surprised if GM didn't have data that suggests the refresh is appealing to at least some folks. They generally don't do things to just do them. The refresh cost them millions and the expectation is either prevent losing sales or to try and gain sales. It is generally not to lose more.

I probably should've put 50 years from now, but whatever. Although volume, and rarity does have some impact on collectability, the real dollar driver is emotion and nostalgia. That's why 'survivor cars' draw the highest bids, they're time capsules. Take the '67 Corvette L88, literally only a handful were ordered and built, but it isn't that rarity that drives it to seven figure bids, it's the story behind that L88 Corvette that drives the collectability. It's the emotion that story creates.

Incentives are just built into the system. All manufactures care about in terms of sales are what the dealerships order. New models, new features, new designs keep the profits moving from those that want the latest and greatest. The incentives are paid for from the ongoing cost of ownership items after the sale. It's just the game of consumer marketing and is not exclusive to the automotive industry.

[TrackClub]

Well said. I think exclusivity of low numbers has a lot to do with future value. But other criteria have to click as well. Ford GT is a good example. Prior gen of GT500 is a good example of folks paying thru their noses when they first came out and Ford promised low numbers. Then they produced more and prices fell. Z/28 is another example of a car originally priced out of orbit that didnt deliver future value wise. Gen6 proly had a lot to do with it tho. Same story with GT350 as they already sell at discounts even new. But marketing will always try to create purchasing frenzy. And tons of folks get caught up in it when new models come out. And dealers will always "help" those with extra cash in hand

[keon718nyc]

A couple years from now the Gen 7 will appear and all this 19' refresh crap talk will be gone with the wind. Can't wait LMAO... Amazing so much chatter about a refresh that will last maybe 2 years most. Funny people are treating this like its a whole new redesigned Gen. All i remember is when they refreshed the 14'/15' Camaro and threw on the old Lexus SC300 lights on the rear. Looked like shit IMO still does... Glad i leased my car to have options at the end of the 3 years rather then take a bullet and get screwed thousands on a early trade if the 19' was all that to begin with.

[Boost Creep]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I would be really surprised if in 20 years there was any difference at all. As mentioned earlier, that is suggesting that 1998 vs a 1999 Camaro would have a difference.

To some people it may be more like a '73 vs a '74.

[Cgocifer]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Well said. I think exclusivity of low numbers has a lot to do with future value. But other criteria have to click as well. Ford GT is a good example. Prior gen of GT500 is a good example of folks paying thru their noses when they first came out and Ford promised low numbers. Then they produced more and prices fell. Z/28 is another example of a car originally priced out of orbit that didnt deliver future value wise. Gen6 proly had a lot to do with it tho. Same story with GT350 as they already sell at discounts even new. But marketing will always try to create purchasing frenzy. And tons of folks get caught up in it when new models come out. And dealers will always "help" those with extra cash in hand

Regardless, we're talking about a mass produced Camaro, not a supercar. Only way these become valuable investments in the future is if people long for the last few generations of gas engine powered cars. Even then, they'll probably be illegal to drive unless someone has a permit for exhibition only for historical reasons. Lol

[JhonnyGTR]

Originally Posted by Cgocifer

Regardless, we're talking about a mass produced Camaro, not a supercar. Only way these become valuable investments in the future is if people long for the last few generations of gas engine powered cars. Even then, they'll probably be illegal to drive unless someone has a permit for exhibition only for historical reasons. Lol

[RealG]

All the 2019 Camaro bashing will end when it sells , all negative comments will seem silly if the 19 sells better. Time will tell that story. Haters can say what they want now because we have no selling data BUT that will change. I’m so glad we have all the predictions in writing like the 5th gen refresh predictions that were 100% wrong and when the sales numbers came out it was dead silence from the haters , will history repeat itself ? Or do people learn from history ? Hmmmmm time will tell .

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by RealG

All the 2019 Camaro bashing will end when it sells , all negative comments will seem silly if the 19 sells better. Time will tell that story. Haters can say what they want now because we have no selling data BUT that will change. I’m so glad we have all the predictions in writing like the 5th gen refresh predictions that were 100% wrong and when the sales numbers came out it was dead silence from the haters , will history repeat itself ? Or do people learn from history ? Hmmmmm time will tell .

I dont givena crap if they sell millions. In fact I hope they do for the sake of the model. However, I will never like this car no matter what it sells. Its hideous in my view and always will be. If the ZL1 didnt exist, I would buy the six 1LE over the SS as it looks way better. Im glad you like it. Go buy one to keep the model alive.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by RealG

All the 2019 Camaro bashing will end when it sells , all negative comments will seem silly if the 19 sells better. Time will tell that story. Haters can say what they want now because we have no selling data BUT that will change. I’m so glad we have all the predictions in writing like the 5th gen refresh predictions that were 100% wrong and when the sales numbers came out it was dead silence from the haters , will history repeat itself ? Or do people learn from history ? Hmmmmm time will tell .

Couldnt agree more. The only measure of success is sales numbers. While i love my 2017 i prefer the refreshed styling. So does my wife btw. Moreover, given C8 is just around the corner as evidenced by recent C8R testing out in public view, so will the new motors likely starting with 2020my.