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Old 01-13-2021, 10:26 AM   #99
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Tesla is only profitable from selling credits to Stellantis. They still lose money as a manufacturer. Still at a loss as to how the stock price responds to that business model.

In December Tesla's market capitalization is higher than the 9 largest automakers. It really doesn't make sense to me, especially now that I read they are losing marketshare in europe with competition from VW.
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Old 01-13-2021, 10:37 AM   #100
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In December Tesla's market capitalization is higher than the 9 largest automakers. It really doesn't make sense to me, especially now that I read they are losing marketshare in europe with competition from VW.
stocks are about the future as much as they are about the current.

Tesla owns many patents around technology that doesn't necessarily have to be used in tesla manufactured vehicles.

They also have a lot of R&D going into future battery tech that could be utilized by other if not all other manufacturers.

Then there is their self driving R&D which could be licensed by others.

In some sense, tesla manufactured vehicles could be seen as platforms for all of their patents rather than something intended to become a long term major vehicle manufacturer (though there is no reason to think they'll stop).

It's not hard to see why their stock price is not reflecting their current profitability when considering the above. in the end though, you can't ignore the investor factor since there's no rule that says they have to invest logically - but the big investors are looking at their company financials a lot closer than any armchair guy is and apparently they like what they see.
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:03 PM   #101
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You'd be stupid not to buy some Tesla stock and take some short term profits. Yes, you can debate if you're going to buy and hold it for years.


If anything, buy stock in companies that will be providing electric charging stations. Then your stocks won't be directly tied to Tesla.
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:23 PM   #102
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You'd be stupid not to buy some Tesla stock and take some short term profits. Yes, you can debate if you're going to buy and hold it for years.


If anything, buy stock in companies that will be providing electric charging stations. Then your stocks won't be directly tied to Tesla.

Now, whether we like it or not, a lot of us are now owners of tesla stock through SP500 index funds.
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Old 01-13-2021, 05:05 PM   #103
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I think it all comes down to diversifying things. Right now, it seems like GM only cares about following the electric trend and being tech-savvy. I think varying opinions, and perspectives on a great car (especially performance car) is the way to go, and it keeps it from being so political. GM right now seems to only understand what the world needs, not what it wants.
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Old 01-14-2021, 07:26 AM   #104
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I think it all comes down to diversifying things. Right now, it seems like GM only cares about following the electric trend and being tech-savvy. I think varying opinions, and perspectives on a great car (especially performance car) is the way to go, and it keeps it from being so political. GM right now seems to only understand what the world needs, not what it wants.
Unfortunately, what the world wants is fewer cars made by GM. Only FST and SUVs are popular right now.

GM is banking on making the industry's best EV will get them relevant again.

Last numbers I saw, 10 years ago now, GM market share on the West and East coasts was well under 10%. And that was FST trucks and SUVs.
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Old 01-14-2021, 07:56 AM   #105
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Unfortunately, what the world wants is fewer cars made by GM. Only FST and SUVs are popular right now.

GM is banking on making the industry's best EV will get them relevant again.

Last numbers I saw, 10 years ago now, GM market share on the West and East coasts was well under 10%. And that was FST trucks and SUVs.

Do people not want GM cars because GM doesn’t build what people want? Or does GM simply do a horrible job of promoting what they do make?

For one thing Buick in America seems like it’s been dead weight for 20 years. I know they sell like gangbusters in China but there’s a portion of people in America who I’m pretty sure don’t even know Buick still exists or ever did to begin with.
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Old 01-14-2021, 08:35 PM   #106
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Unfortunately, what the world wants is fewer cars made by GM. Only FST and SUVs are popular right now.
How about a rather orthodox suggestion to solve this problem: make better vehicles. Be better than the competition. The 2021 Escalade is a good start.

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GM is banking on making the industry's best EV will get them relevant again.
Not sure why the same people who are turning to Toyota and others today for reliability and features would all of a sudden wipe the slate clean and trust GM to make a top notch product simply because the company quickly switched its focus to EVs and replaced the corporate logo. There needs to be some continuity, these hail mary's typically don't work. Again, the Escalade is a good start, and so is the C8.

Apart from the low volume, unicorn 6th gen Camaro or Corvette, although cheapskating is tangible there as well (A8 issues anyone? hot start issue? nav map updates at $100-150 every year? even something as petty as no dimming with the passenger side mirror? come on...), we can pair up nearly every Chevy model and trim with equivalent offerings from Ford, Honda, Toyota, now even Kia, and it tends to come up short. Good dealerships can be a saving grace, but GM doesn't own the distribution channel.

Even though GM's market share is still significant, the downward trend is unmistakable, and it isn't because people are sitting at home, unwilling to buy cars/trucks because they want the "industry's best EV".

My opinion is make better products, sell at reasonable prices, don't pull any crap on existing customers and they will come, whether the company sells electric, gasoline or diesel.

This is all just my 2 cents', of course.
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Old 01-15-2021, 10:32 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Petrol Head View Post
Do people not want GM cars because GM doesn’t build what people want? Or does GM simply do a horrible job of promoting what they do make?

For one thing Buick in America seems like it’s been dead weight for 20 years. I know they sell like gangbusters in China but there’s a portion of people in America who I’m pretty sure don’t even know Buick still exists or ever did to begin with.
I would say it's a little of both.

When I needed a replacement for my Focus I needed something quick. Needed a sedan.

Fusion Sport was what I had my eye on but was more than I wanted to spend at the time, and the regular Fusion offerings while OK didn't move the needle for me, especially at the current prices.

GM - Malibu did nothing for me, styling interior everything jsut nothing moved the needle. SS would have been perfect, but no longer available new and the used prices were way more than I wanted to spend on a used vehicle.

Dodge - no chance

The left me with the Japanese automakers. Did not like the way the Corolla drove, so that left Honda and Mazda. the mazda felt more athletic or engaging if you will and Mazda at the time had a much better lease offer so that is the route I went
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 01-15-2021, 12:37 PM   #108
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Eff EV's!

I even refuse to switch to an electric trimmer...
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Old 01-15-2021, 07:04 PM   #109
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Chrylser is dropping the Hellcat engine in anything that will fit and GM is working on electric cars.
For shame, gm.....
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Old 01-15-2021, 08:17 PM   #110
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Chrylser is dropping the Hellcat engine in anything that will fit and GM is working on electric cars.
For shame, gm.....
Its because Chrysler actually understands what its customers wants. GM is trying to dictate what its customers will get.
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Old 01-15-2021, 08:26 PM   #111
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Its because Chrysler actually understands what its customers wants. GM is trying to dictate what its customers will get.
This is the entire discussion in two lines. Sums it up perfectly.
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Old 01-19-2021, 03:13 PM   #112
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I think you guys are overthinking it, GM sells more vehicles in China than in the US, their EV lineup is mostly going to be for China. They're gonna introduce a new Bolt, a new Buick EV, the Hummer, some Cadillacs, and maybe an EV truck over the next 5-7 years in the states. Besides that, I believe the V8 trucks, Corvette and Camaro will remain. If they do switch the Camaro to all electric that will be surprising.

I will never buy an EV though, don't care how good the tech gets until I have no other option but too. I hate the idea of charging a car and I hate the idea of the battery being degraded over time like a phone, the battery life(range) will get worse every year. With gas I can fill up very quickly whenever I need to. With electric, you'll be late to work or get stuck in many places because of slow charging or lack of charging stations.

Also it costs more to charge a vehicle at these stations than it is to fill a gas tank. Europe will tax EV's heavily once tax revenue from ICE vehicles dissipates. I'm very confident that the consumers in the US will resist this change if it is forced on too quickly. These EV cars are too expensive and not convenient enough at the time being.
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