[FH212]

Originally Posted by BG2112

Do you think the ability to get the 1LE package in an automatic will help with those numbers?

It worked for me......I sold my 2017 1LE and ordered a 2021 A10 1LE

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

I think someone on the forum said before that there is no right ad(or incentive/inventory) for the wrong car.

Everyone here obviously loves Camaros but it's got some practicality issues that can turn average buyers away.

This ^ Everyone on forums forgets that the enthusiast is in the minority.

Is the camaro the best overall performer in the segment? 100%

V-8 take rate for the modern pony car is only like 30-40%. That means 60-70% of the people that buy these cars are not buying the performance trims, so they aren't going to care about the power, ring times or how good it brakes. they are buying it based on styling/price and all that other stuff.

What do Mustang and Challenger have in common over the Camaro? They are better coupes. All 3 are struggling hard but camaro is struggling the hardest

[Thill444]

Car sales across the board are down 30-40% year over year due to COVID. The Camaro is down like 43%. It's a staggering amount, but not too far outside what other companies are seeing. I can see all manufacturers making some changes. It's possible GM may make some big changes due to big losses, but they are not alone.

Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, none of these cars are the big sellers/profit centers that trucks and SUV's are. None of them would be safe if bean counters decide to focus on reducing the lineup, closing factories, and focusing on profit.

[gmcvt]

This low sales issue has to be a combination of things but to me, the largest culprit has to be the practicality aspect. For most of us, it isn't that big of a deal. But as someone mentioned earlier, the simple reality is, that most "average" people do not like the lower visibility and the more cramped, darker feeling of the Camaro. I think for alot of folks, its "cool" but not something they really want to live with on a dailly basis. And while the trunk is roomy enough, the access isn't that great. These two qualities alone are enough to turn off alot of folks.

As someone who owned an S550 Mustang, it "feels" like it strikes a good balance between different and normal for those folks who aren't just looking at performance data and specs.

[LT4Greg]

Just wait and see when gasoline prices go back up if people keep their trucks and big SUVs! People will be getting rid of them because they can’t afford the gasoline to run them. It’s happened before and may happen again in the not so distant future times.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by BG2112

Do you think the ability to get the 1LE package in an automatic will help with those numbers?

Not a lot. It will help sell more 1LEs but it's not going to help sell big numbers of them. The $45k plus Camaros aren't the meat of what sells with Camaro, it's the less expensive LT trims.

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by shaffe

This ^ Everyone on forums forgets that the enthusiast is in the minority.

Is the camaro the best overall performer in the segment? 100%

V-8 take rate for the modern pony car is only like 30-40%. That means 60-70% of the people that buy these cars are not buying the performance trims, so they aren't going to care about the power, ring times or how good it brakes. they are buying it based on styling/price and all that other stuff.

What do Mustang and Challenger have in common over the Camaro? They are better coupes. All 3 are struggling hard but camaro is struggling the hardest

i bought my 5th gen in 2016.wanted the V-6 and didnt feel like i wanted to pay a $1500 premium to avoid the T4.both the T4 and V6 have plenty of power for street use and get at least slightly better mpg than the V8.i got the 2LT (RS)package which had backup camera,leather and better headlights.i looked at mustangs first but felt like i was sitting straight up in a narrow car.to me the camaro was more comfortable and rode better.

[Thill444]

Originally Posted by gmcvt

This low sales issue has to be a combination of things but to me, the largest culprit has to be the practicality aspect. For most of us, it isn't that big of a deal. But as someone mentioned earlier, the simple reality is, that most "average" people do not like the lower visibility and the more cramped, darker feeling of the Camaro. I think for alot of folks, its "cool" but not something they really want to live with on a dailly basis. And while the trunk is roomy enough, the access isn't that great. These two qualities alone are enough to turn off alot of folks.

As someone who owned an S550 Mustang, it "feels" like it strikes a good balance between different and normal for those folks who aren't just looking at performance data and specs.

I do agree with you the Camaro is more of a sportscar and probably not a great daily driver choice for people that have a family, etc. But my last car was a Mustang/GT-350 and you are still making sacrifices vs a normal sedan or CUV/SUV. I am 5'11" and the backseat in either car is pretty useless for anyone but a smaller kid. Trunk space is better in the Mustang, but again, neither car is really practical for hauling people and things. Once you decide you are buying a RWD sportscar you are already making concessoins.

I think the Camaro styling is more polarizing, and GM wanted to keep the aggressive look with high beltline and poorer visibility. It's a turnoff for sure. GM also fumbled around with the refresh and the 19's was met with a lot of negative publicity.

Where the Camaro shines is the handling, low end torque (V8), and things like active rev match, HUD, PDR, etc. It's a more track purpose built cars and that is great for people like me, but less appealing to the masses.

I don't know the future of the Camaro, but I think trying to use 2020 sales as some sort of a guide is shortsighted as there big factors at play that need to be taken into account vs just reporting pure sales numbers.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by closs2sx

Hate to say this but if the camaro ss 1le and Zl1 1le didn’t handle as good as they do (I own both) and dodge or ford put a manual in the red eye or the gt500 this die hard gm guy would not own a camaro. I have had to modify and give up my warranty to be satisfied with power for the camaros. If I could buy an exotic with the hp level I desire with a manual for 300k or less I would but I can’t and I’m not willing to void a warranty to make an exotic fast when it should be fast to begin with for the price. When gm realizes that 650 hp is old news and 455 is way too little for the ss and puts the ss at 550 or more and the zl1 at 800 or more they will sell a lot more

Unless you live in the middle of nowhere, anything over 500 BHP is useless on the street. Even 400 BHP is pretty much overkill. Then you get into the issue of not being able to stretch your legs at all in normal driving unless you enjoy paying for tickets and endangering public.

The only places I wish my SS is a ZL1 is on the massive highways in Alberta or on a track. I have otherwise thought 455 BHP is more than enough.

Sent from toaster or something

[closs2sx]

Originally Posted by L78toLT1

When gm realizes that 650 hp is old news and 455 is way too little for the ss and puts the ss at 550 or more and the zl1 at 800 or more they will sell a lot more

I really don't think it's the hp. Ford and Dodge certainly seem to be able to move the lesser model Challengers and Mustangs. I don't think it's the advertising either. The Camaro is a niche vehicle that's just not very as a daily driver. I love mine, but will have to admit that I'd prefer a Challenger, Charger, or even a Mustang as a daily.[/QUOTE]

If I could bring myself to drive mine in the rain i would drive mine everyday. I would much rather drive it than my 2020 at4 duramax. Dodge is selling because its the highest hp of all and while not everyone buys at the highest level they are part of the king of hp group. I personally can't understand why more people buy a car that is less capable when shopping for a performance car. That being said I had a friend looking to get into the car hobby and he asked me what he should get. I would have loved to have steered him to the camaro but I asked him are you looking to go corner carving or just cruising around town. he said just cruising and he is a bigger guy so I said get a challenger. He got a 392 challenger. I took him for a ride in my ss 1le with 880 rwhp and he won't get back in the car lol

[closs2sx]

When you get into the lesser models dodge does a better job of making them look good or at least giving you the option to opt for stuff that makes them look good. Gm can't get that right either. The lesser models look like crap and they don't give you much option to improve that.

[NotFast]

If sales are so poor then why are used prices so solid? I'm in the market and prices have gone nuts compared pre-pandemic.

[Thill444]

Originally Posted by NotFast

If sales are so poor then why are used prices so solid? I'm in the market and prices have gone nuts compared pre-pandemic.

Sales are poor because they don't have many new cars to sell. Used prices are high because they don't have many new cars to sell.

It's all supply and demand driven.

If you are looking for a brand new Camaro right now with a specific color, trim. and option you likely will need to order a 2021 unless you are willing to travel.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by closs2sx

Hate to say this but if the camaro ss 1le and Zl1 1le didn’t handle as good as they do (I own both) and dodge or ford put a manual in the red eye or the gt500 this die hard gm guy would not own a camaro. I have had to modify and give up my warranty to be satisfied with power for the camaros. If I could buy an exotic with the hp level I desire with a manual for 300k or less I would but I can’t and I’m not willing to void a warranty to make an exotic fast when it should be fast to begin with for the price. When gm realizes that 650 hp is old news and 455 is way too little for the ss and puts the ss at 550 or more and the zl1 at 800 or more they will sell a lot more

Sorry...just jumping in here to say...

455HP too little for the SS? Are you crazy? 455HP in a car you can buy brand spanking new for low 30s. I get that you are used to levels of power that most people never experience, but come on now. 500HP is simply NOT USEABLE on the street. On the track...well heck yes bring it on! I absolutely love my 2016 SS, but holy crap every drive it's an exercise in restraint to keep myself from winding er out...hitting "go to jail" speeds only takes a couple of seconds.

The Mustang is approaching 500HP, and assuming the next generation of pony cars (if we even get a Camaro) have another small jump in performance, we'll be looking at the average pony car that can do 0 - 50 in 3.5 seconds and the 1/4 mile in under 12 seconds.

That's plenty of power. The Camaro's shortcomings are not it's performance...that's for sure.