[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by LESS1

And when the Frod fanboys finally do realize they bought an incomplete package they begin to talk about "poor visibility" and Mustang "sales numbers" to compensate for the fact they bought an inferior Pony Car.





GM doesn't pander to the fanboys and continue to throw more HP/TQ, grip, cooling..etc at their cars. They set specific performance targets and once achieved they move on to the next project. Unlike Frod who just goes back and adds more crap to an incomplete package to satisfy the masses. And as we have seen over the past 10 or so years in a futile attempt to compete with GM performance cars unsuccessfully.





On the street, sure, not on a race track...especially if you are planning to run more than a few laps. For example. I ran an open track day at Summit Point Shenandoah circuit last summer. Ambient temps were 100 - 103, on track was over 120 deg. Three Mustangs in attendance. I ran more laps in my first 45 min session on the track than the three of them combined all day. They bailed at lunchtime... "too hot". Not for SS 1LE, I come off the track and turn on my AC and cool off for 10 mins or so before turning off the car, never opened the hood either. I didn't need to since all my temps were fine. Try that in any Frod stock mustang...good luck. For your viewing pleasure - Mustang free track day mentioned above...

I've been on the receiving end of that ford fanboy argument. When presented with objective performance facts that the mustang just can't match they suddenly become ford reps and shareholders talking about sales numbers.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yep



That's true. I guess I just like to see continually investing in a product and making it better instead of just saying here it is we are moving on to something else. Give me a reason to trade up or entice me to upgrade especially when the competition is doing it, or maybe I'll see what they are offering. And like I mentioned especially when you have a viable option could use.



Yes that was purely just on the type of equipment the cars come with and not their capabilities

LT1 and GT both on all season tires

SS and GT PP1 upgraded performance equipment (advantage SS)

1LE and GTpp2 even more upgrades (advantage 1LE)

I get what youre saying to some degree but that is also a slap in the face to esrly adopters. 15 to 17 guys bought an inferior prodduct, and just a few years after their car was introduced.

Maybe a higher trim is fine, but just improving the same trim level so quickly is annoying to owners of the older car of the same gen.

Build a car right and keep it as is for a while, look at the camaro 6, hellcat, c7z, c6 z06. Built right and stayed unchaged for long periods, then higher more powerful trims came out but those cars mentioned were just as good for the early adopters as the late model years.

Gt500s changed a ton during the s197 era, and s550 GTs changed asap.

[NW-99SS]

New ZL1 1LE M6 VIR record by a member here.

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=570704

https://youtu.be/RDJwLDBfuu8

Now 1.5 seconds behind the 110hp, Randy Probst driven, DCT GT500.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by Lafourche1

Are you referring to the GYSC3s? If so, I can speak to those, too. They hold up very well under track conditions. While not SC3Rs, they do provide a great deal of grip. They have heat cycled out in some 12 track sessions, to date. They are progressive in how they communicate.

They have far higher limits than the three other tires that I commented on.

Yep exactly what I was looking for! And the bold part is what I was trying to express to everyone, but I never tracked on the runflats to give hard data to the people asking me to provide it. I drove them on the street for approx. 900 miles and sold the stock wheels and tires.

Although I disagree on the heat cycling out though. I run them till they cord and they don't seem to lose much time.

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

What a strange statement to make. You can easily hoon around and break the ass end on an ss, the difference is that you can get it back into control with relative ease, the mustang might be done for if taken too far.

Not to mention for street hooting, that power down low is where its at and you can kick the back end out even at low revs.

I can do that with my mustang easily. Kick out the ass end like it’s nothing

I kept trying to explore the limits of the camaro on the street and it kept laughing at me. The only thing that remotely got my heart rate going was the launch, and it was awesome.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I get what youre saying to some degree but that is also a slap in the face to esrly adopters. 15 to 17 guys bought an inferior prodduct, and just a few years after their car was introduced.

Maybe a higher trim is fine, but just improving the same trim level so quickly is annoying to owners of the older car of the same gen.

Build a car right and keep it as is for a while, look at the camaro 6, hellcat, c7z, c6 z06. Built right and stayed unchaged for long periods, then higher more powerful trims came out but those cars mentioned were just as good for the early adopters as the late model years.

Gt500s changed a ton during the s197 era, and s550 GTs changed asap.

That's the risk of being an early adopter. I get what you are saying and that makes sense too. I don't think its as big of a deal if it comes during a MCE or facelift ala 18 GT.

Just look around here though, several members have had multiple 6th gens already for various reasons. IIRC, hotlap had a grey one before he got his hotwheels. Fraxum has had a couple of 6th gens. I wonder how many may have upgraded in 19 or 20 if there had been a power bump instead of just cosmetic changes and the A10. I also wonder how many are leased vs purchased. For the lease customers, what incentive is it to get another one if it's for the most part exactly the same as it was 3 years ago. Hell cars used to change sheetmetal and engines almost every year back in the day.

[Laststandard]

I think the only reason I would have traded for a newer 6th gen would have been if I bought a 2016 and then saw the 1LE released for '17.

A power bump or something similar would have me interested in a 2021+, but mainly due to being closer to out of warranty. Depends on how the value holds for the next few years.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

I can do that with my mustang easily. Kick out the ass end like it’s nothing

I kept trying to explore the limits of the camaro on the street and it kept laughing at me. The only thing that remotely got my heart rate going was the launch, and it was awesome.

I can do it easily on the camaro as well.. I have experience with both cars, 18 ss 19gt, kicking the rear end out isnt difficult on either. I have more confidence in how far I can take things in the camaro but to be fair it has a big tire advantage.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

That's the risk of being an early adopter. I get what you are saying and that makes sense too. I don't think its as big of a deal if it comes during a MCE or facelift ala 18 GT.

Just look around here though, several members have had multiple 6th gens already for various reasons. IIRC, hotlap had a grey one before he got his hotwheels. Fraxum has had a couple of 6th gens. I wonder how many may have upgraded in 19 or 20 if there had been a power bump instead of just cosmetic changes and the A10. I also wonder how many are leased vs purchased. For the lease customers, what incentive is it to get another one if it's for the most part exactly the same as it was 3 years ago. Hell cars used to change sheetmetal and engines almost every year back in the day.

Just difference of opinion on this one. As someone who purchases my cars, I prefer when a well built model sticks. I get why they change to attract new buyers, but I just feel like that business practice sticks it to buyers who keep cars long term. Hell its not just rude to early adopters, its extra rude to buyers of the year before the update like the 17 gt guys lol. Luckily the aftermarket will even out the playing field.

To be fair gm has done this as well in the c6 corvette but everyone knew the ls3 was coming next year.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Laststandard

I think the only reason I would have traded for a newer 6th gen would have been if I bought a 2016 and then saw the 1LE released for '17.

A power bump or something similar would have me interested in a 2021+, but mainly due to being closer to out of warranty. Depends on how the value holds for the next few years.

2021 would also be a little more understandable as that would atleast be 5 model years later and the fact that an updated motor is more possible now without the c7 corvettes packaging issues being at play.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Just difference of opinion on this one. As someone who purchases my cars, I prefer when a well built model sticks. I get why they change to attract new buyers, but I just feel like that business practice sticks it to buyers who keep cars long term. Hell its not just rude to early adopters, its extra rude to buyers of the year before the update like the 17 gt guys lol. Luckily the aftermarket will even out the playing field.

To be fair gm has done this as well in the c6 corvette but everyone knew the ls3 was coming next year.

All good. Yeah it can kind of stick it to people who keep them long term. I see both sides. Me as a consumer seeing the product get updated, gives me incentive to want to get that product again maybe even earlier than anticipated.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

That's the risk of being an early adopter. I get what you are saying and that makes sense too. I don't think its as big of a deal if it comes during a MCE or facelift ala 18 GT.

Just look around here though, several members have had multiple 6th gens already for various reasons. IIRC, hotlap had a grey one before he got his hotwheels. Fraxum has had a couple of 6th gens. I wonder how many may have upgraded in 19 or 20 if there had been a power bump instead of just cosmetic changes and the A10. I also wonder how many are leased vs purchased. For the lease customers, what incentive is it to get another one if it's for the most part exactly the same as it was 3 years ago. Hell cars used to change sheetmetal and engines almost every year back in the day.

Originally Posted by shaffe

All good. Yeah it can kind of stick it to people who keep them long term. I see both sides. Me as a consumer seeing the product get updated, gives me incentive to want to get that product again maybe even earlier than anticipated.

In my case, the performance, lower weight and interior quality leap motivated me to trade my 13 ZL1 for a 16 2SS. Complete new model with better ergonomics and performance that equaled the supercharged gen5 with a naturally aspirated engine.

I sold my grey 16 A8 in order to get a 18 manual because I lost faith in the A8. Failure GM. ...but they kept me because Camaro was the best performance-bang-per-dollar. I looked at an Audi A5, BMW M2 and Kia Stinger. The M6 Camaro was the best performance and value

A 25 hp increase and new digital gauge cluster wouldn't have moved me.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by LESS1

On the street, sure, not on a race track...especially if you are planning to run more than a few laps. For example. I ran an open track day at Summit Point Shenandoah circuit last summer. Ambient temps were 100 - 103, on track was over 120 deg. Three Mustangs in attendance. I ran more laps in my first 45 min session on the track than the three of them combined all day. They bailed at lunchtime... "too hot". Not for SS 1LE, I come off the track and turn on my AC and cool off for 10 mins or so before turning off the car, never opened the hood either. I didn't need to since all my temps were fine. Try that in any Frod stock mustang...good luck. For your viewing pleasure - Mustang free track day mentioned above...

I almost went to that track day, it was a SeatTime program if I remember right. I ended up going in the fall instead. Much nicer weather, and there weren't many folks running that day so they combined the two groups into one, and we had an open track all day. I like Shenandoah, but I like Main better. I may go the first week of March.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Thanks for the comparisons, but not the runflat to G3 comparison in question.

The runflats (Asymetric 3's) aren't a bad comprimise tire. They do heat up on the track, and I can get sustained 1.1g's of grip with 1.2g peak on a hot day. Cold days, about a 1/10 of a g less or so. They do well on the street, and I got about 20k miles of DD use, and about 8 track days before I replaced them. They probably had a bit more in them, but I got a nail in one, and I had already picked up a set of slightly used ones cheap (a guy bought an SS Camaro, and swithced to all seasons right away).

The nice thing about them is that once they get heat in them, they are consistent and don't get greasy. You will get more grip out of more agressive compound for sure. But for me, being that my car is a daily driver, I like the fact that this tire is a do-it-all tire. I may try the SuperCar 3's next time, but I will have to look into how they do on the street and how long they last...