[Dysan911]

Originally Posted by Inkedmongo

So no part number for the LS3 front seal, and the Metco breather with the check valve suggested is on back order from what I have read?

What about this? Would it work as a catch can and the extra piece shown work in place of the Metco breather?

http://juicedmotorsports.com/6thgene...e21010css.html


I checked out the mighty mouse Camaro 6 wild, any photos of it installed on a Procharger configuration?

Just for those interested in seeing how I have mine setup with the Metco and the MM Solutions CC.






The breather that typically connects directly to the top of the metco valve cover can be a tight fit with that Procharger air intake piping so as you can see I fabricated a simple workaround. Autozone sells a Spectre Valve cover Gromet that fits like it was made for the Metco and then I just took a 90 degree barbed hose fitting and trimmed it to fit and ran it over behind the headlight (See breather).

The other pic is just my MMS Catch can which is plumbed into the typical Intake/Valley port.

[Elite Engineering]

You NEVER want to use a breather, and here is why:

That defeats all evacuation and leaves most all of the damaging compounds to remain in and accumulate in the crankcase accelerating wear.

Venting is technology from the early 1900’s. Prior to positive evacuation being mandated in 1964, engines did not last more than 30-40k miles before wear dictated a rebuild. In the years following the mandate, these same engines using same oils now lasted 100k plus miles before wear dictated a rebuild. It took several years of study before the reason was discovered it was due to the wear causing compounds were being removed before they could settle and accumulate causing the wear most accepted as normal. Now, let’s go further. If you allow pressure to build to the point of venting, you are causing several detrimental things to happen. First is increased blow-by as the piston rings are designed to have suction below and pressure above them in order to seal properly and maintain stability. When you vent, a condition known as “ring flutter” occurs where the rings enter a state of rapid vibration. Over time this wears the leading edges of the rings, the ringlands, and also eventually small divots in the cylinder walls. If you look, not a single form of Professional racing vents except top fuel and top alcohol dragsters as most oil is forced from the crankcase in a single run and we rebuild every run. Other than that, no professional race teams would neglect and subject the Engine to all the negatives of venting. Why do we see so many tuner shops vent? There has been no training in tech schools or Dealer programs for decades so there is so little accurate info available outside of the industry. So assumptions are why. Lack of knowledge.

Almost no shops understand proper evacuation. Every form of Professional racing uses belt or crank driven vacuum pumps that is the absolute best solution, but these pumps will not last long driven in the street. Go to a National Drag race event and walk through the pits. Look at an IRL car. None of these would ever subject the Engine that so much is invested in and relied on to win with “venting”. Most tuner shops only make assumptions when it comes to this critical function, so they assume venting is acceptable. Venting was used until the early 1960’s and in racing has not been used in decades. We win and lose far too often by hundredths or thousands of a second. We may have a low of $12-15k in a bracket class Engine, and well over $40-100k in a pro class Engine depending on the class. Every Engine we run a Aerospace Components vacuum pump system with a target of maintaining 14-15” of vacuum
On the crankcase. Want to see a demonstration on the Dyno? YouTube search “Scranton Vacuum Pump” and watch. A small cube Engine is on the Dyno. First run is venting. Second is pulling evacuation on the crankcase. This is just the power disparity. Over time, the Engine wear from venting is very destructive.

Continuing. Let’s look at an analogy of what occurs in the crankcase. First, all engines have a certain amount of blow-by. This blow-by is mainly 70% water and sulfuric acid. 23% raw fuel (no, gasoline is NOT a very efficient fuel), and a mix of abrasive Particulate matter. Mainly soot, ash, and carbon. If left in the crankcase, this is what overwhelms the oil and prevents it from protecting properly. In fact, today’s full synthetic oils don’t wear out, they simply become overwhelmed with contaminants until they reach a state of being condemned. So? The analogy: Think of your crankcase as a room. It has a vent in the ceiling spewing smoke and a window on each end. The goal is to clear the room and keep it clear. So if you vent, it is like opening one window. Excess pressure will escape out the window and a small amount of smoke with it, but the room remains filled with smoke. Now open the opposite window and place a fan in it sucking out, and the room quickly clears and remains smoke free even with Smoke still spewing from the vent. Fresh air enters the first window and flushed and makes up for the smoke filled air being evacuated (sucked out) the opposite window. Your crankcase is the same. No engine is designed to build pressure and vent, they have a PCV system to remove these compounds and keep the oil clean and the damaging compounds out. This is the PCV valve or in most newer engines a fixed orifice. There is a Fresh/Clean side of each where fresh, filtered, and MAF metered air enters to flush and make up for the Foul/Dirty side contaminate laden vapors are evacuated (sucked out). This is why it is so detrimental over time to defeat this by venting. The system featured in this thread not only retains this, but also improves evacuation at all times. It traps and retains 95% plus of all the contaminants so Oil and other compounds that cause detonation and disrupt the combustion process so you eliminate this, and as it pulls suction on the crankcase at all times, pressure can never build in the first place (unless you have a piston/ring/cylinder wall breach). So Engine life is greatly extended, Power is slightly increased by better ring seal and stability, and the parasitic Power loss of the pistons fighting pressure on the down stroke is mostly eliminated. As the intake air charge no longer has the contaminating compounds and oil mist removed each explosive event (combustion) is more complete and releases more energy.

So, why would anyone follow today's technology used by Professional race teams and allow pressure to build in the first place when you can have a system that pulls evacuation suction on the crankcase at all times?

[Dysan911]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

You NEVER want to use a breather, and here is why:

That defeats all evacuation and leaves most all of the damaging compounds to remain in and accumulate in the crankcase accelerating wear.

blah blah blah BUY MY CATCH CAN

Thanks for the cut and paste ............. again.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Nothing wrong with using a breather with a check valve, it is only active at full throttle, The original PCV system remains in service.

The factory PCV system has a breather but it is too small to accomodate forced induction.

As Toohighpsi pointed out you can increase the line size which helps.

Adding an additional breather further enhances ring seal be relieving crankcase pressure that is otherwise deemed normal.

[parbreak]

I start zoning out when I see Elite post. Is my Mighty Mouse Wild enough for ProCharged at around 550 RWHP? Not looking for a War and Peace type of response.

[Dysan911]

Originally Posted by parbreak

I start zoning out when I see Elite post. Is my Mighty Mouse Wild enough for ProCharged at around 550 RWHP? Not looking for a War and Peace type of response.

Your MM Wild setup is GOOD TO GO. Although the MM valve cover adapter doesn't have a check valve in it. It does connect into the Catch Can which does have a PCV valve that essentially does the same thing of dumping excess crankcase during boost and returns to vacuum mode under normal driving. So you have nothing to worry about.

[parbreak]

Originally Posted by Dysan911

Your MM Wild setup is GOOD TO GO. Although the MM valve cover adapter doesn't have a check valve in it. It does connect into the Catch Can which does have a PCV valve that essentially does the same thing of dumping excess crankcase during boost and returns to vacuum mode under normal driving. So you have nothing to worry about.

Cool, thanks.

[bpang1234]

I have a thread in the Issues / Problems forum but I figure I might ask here because I am hoping this Crank Seal is my problem.

Long story short, a couple weeks ago I was at a track day and my car started throwing a bunch of codes at me:

P0171 - Bank 1 System Too Lean
P0174 - Bank 2 System Too Lean
P0300 - Random - Multiple Misfire Detected
P0430 - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 2

A few days later I got P0306 - Misfire Cylinder 6...replaced the dry fouled spark plug and that fixed the misfires.

Today, I had all 8 plugs changed since the rest were basically as fouled as the Cylinder 6 plug. Car runs great at idle and part throttle (I am gun shy to do a pull)...but NOW I HAVE A LEAK at the front of my motor!!! It looks like the oil is splashed all around the balancer and collecting on the undertray but I can't tell if it is leaking from the balancer or somewhere else.

Oil pressure sits at 40 at idle and rises to 55-60 when the car is revved. Dipstick reads full oil (at least right now).

Does anyone have any pictures I could compare to or helpful hints to diagnose my leak? I'd just like to know if I should order that LS3 crank seal or not in advance so my mechanic can knock it out quickly.

Help and thank you for your guidance!

[oldman]

Don't see how the seal causes the codes, I've run mine vented way before I even did the supercharger, playing with all kinds of ideas.

If you posted your issue after a track day (supercharger or not), I'd speculate on a bent push rod, basically once in a while not letting intake 6 seat cause a internal vacuum leak and the engine to run crazy rich, then lean.

There is that fitting that is kind of hinky that goes inback of the manifold to the break booster, it is just a push connection and I had to finally black silicone mine on (I've swapped and ported and swapped my MSD and stock intakes many times). But usually that hose causes a rough and high idle... you said yours is good to go.

One other think and this is an issue I have with my procharger hose to the TB, the MAF is HARD against the fan shroud and my wires are really tight against the lip of the shroud, twice now they have jiggled loose sending my IAT temps all crazy... I've tried but there is no fix without some modding of the hose. 5 degrees of rotation of the MAF toward the engine would solve the issue...

One the crank seal the stock LT1 is really weak, the LS ones basically push in ward to seal the damper and the more boost pressure the tighter it seals, the LT1 is just a really whimpy lip...

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by bpang1234

I have a thread in the Issues / Problems forum but I figure I might ask here because I am hoping this Crank Seal is my problem.

Long story short, a couple weeks ago I was at a track day and my car started throwing a bunch of codes at me:

P0171 - Bank 1 System Too Lean
P0174 - Bank 2 System Too Lean
P0300 - Random - Multiple Misfire Detected
P0430 - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 2

A few days later I got P0306 - Misfire Cylinder 6...replaced the dry fouled spark plug and that fixed the misfires.

Today, I had all 8 plugs changed since the rest were basically as fouled as the Cylinder 6 plug. Car runs great at idle and part throttle (I am gun shy to do a pull)...but NOW I HAVE A LEAK at the front of my motor!!! It looks like the oil is splashed all around the balancer and collecting on the undertray but I can't tell if it is leaking from the balancer or somewhere else.

Oil pressure sits at 40 at idle and rises to 55-60 when the car is revved. Dipstick reads full oil (at least right now).

Does anyone have any pictures I could compare to or helpful hints to diagnose my leak? I'd just like to know if I should order that LS3 crank seal or not in advance so my mechanic can knock it out quickly.

Help and thank you for your guidance!

If you are seeing oil around the balancer you have failed the seal.

You can order a replacement here https://jannettyracing.com/products/...ont-crank-seal

[oldman]

The seal is not causing the codes.. IMO of course.

[laynlo15]

I replaced mine with an LS3 seal and updated my PCV system. No problems on 15+ lbs of boost now.

[oldman]

My Metco filter is close but really does NOT interfere with the intake, my problem with it is two fold. The o ring to the valve cover is not tight enough and it weeps oil down the valve cover and onto the header, easy enough fix with silicone. Second problem under boost, enough oil collects around the filter to also drip onto the header or stink up the passenger compartment. I'm going to your idea, but I'm going to put that filer some place either really low in the front or by the manual transmission, I don't want to smell or see any vapor... been with a forged piston 440 most of my life, bout time I drive without smelling the vapor of power... any part number on the spectre gasket, want to get the right one.

[bpang1234]

Does anyone have a picture of how to mount the Metco breather on the LT1 motor with a ProCharger?

I just looked at the space and I am "skeptical" it will fit. Then again, I am pretty dumb about this stuff. That's why I need a picture to show my mechanics what they need to aim for.

Help?