[3.8TransAM]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Ah, for crying out loud, do I have to attach this link every time...

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=556150

Yes, there is a 15~20 WHP/WTQ gain across the rev range, so 20 BHP gain is fair to say. Remember, there is a tune that comes with the intake, so the gain is sustainable. And no, the tune isn't for emission purposes, it's to correct the MAF readings as far as I understand.

It's also already 50-state legal, and you can already option a Camaro V8 to come from the factory with it installed. Again, there is already a solution for 20 BHP gain with a warranty.

Except for some magical reason you can't get it for 20+ cars now....... I want one.

[3.8TransAM]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

It may indeed "fit" but remember that in order to keep within current pedestrian safety/impact requirements, there needs to be a minimum of 20mm distance from the lowest part of the underside of the hood and the highest point on the top of the engine. Now I dont personally know the current distance of the LT1 to hood, or if the LT2 I take is taller than the LT1's. But. . . If it is and it causes there to be a regulatory issue and a manufacturing issue, then I can see it as being "not worth" the expense. Maybe someone here can chime in with measurements.

Ahhh the gubment adding engineering and taking away fun at our expense, have to love it. I get wanting safer cars, but some of it has gone so far down the rabbit hole as to be laughable. None of the time is spent educating the 80% moron drivers on the road.....

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Ah, for crying out loud, do I have to attach this link every time...

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=556150

Yes, there is a 15~20 WHP/WTQ gain across the rev range, so 20 BHP gain is fair to say. Remember, there is a tune that comes with the intake, so the gain is sustainable. And no, the tune isn't for emission purposes, it's to correct the MAF readings as far as I understand.

It's also already 50-state legal, and you can already option a Camaro V8 to come from the factory with it installed. Again, there is already a solution for 20 BHP gain with a warranty.

We should certainly base that claim on one forum post from 2 years ago. I'm sure it will be the exact same result for everyone that installs one.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

We should certainly base that claim on one forum post from 2 years ago. I'm sure it will be the exact same result for everyone that installs one.

You are welcome to disprove it with your own dyno results. If you don't have it, sorry, but the thread has way more weight than your attempt at criticism.

And on a stock, unmodified engine, how much standard deviation is there? Everyone has pretty much the same starting point.

[WHAMMO]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

You are welcome to disprove it with your own dyno results. If you don't have it, sorry, but the thread has way more weight than your attempt at criticism.

And on a stock, unmodified engine, how much standard deviation is there? Everyone has pretty much the same starting point.

100%

[s346k]

ah yes, how easily we forget that one anecdotal dyno graph is the standard. about a cai, no less. i hear 2001 calling, it wants its car forum information back.

the camaros aren't getting any power upgrades. tbh, i'll be surprised if they make more than 10k of them in 23.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by s346k

ah yes, how easily we forget that one anecdotal dyno graph is the standard. about a cai, no less. i hear 2001 calling, it wants its car forum information back.

the camaros aren't getting any power upgrades. tbh, i'll be surprised if they make more than 10k of them in 23.

Yes, I realize it is anecdotal, but what variables are there, outside of environmental parameters (which will affect pretty much every power mod)? Assuming we are starting with a stock engine, stock ECU, then everyone has the same starting point and finishing point. It's an identical intake + an identical tune.

If it's an anecdotal butt dyno then yes, of course don't trust it, but this isn't a butt dyno.

Again, show your own dyno to counter the information that's available, and I am more than willing to look at your information.

Remember, this CAI comes with a tune and a 4~5% bump in power really isn't that unbelievable.

[s346k]

none of my dynographs include that part. plus i don't race dynos, so moot point at best.

fact remains - the camaro is already dead and has been pretty much since it was released 5 years ago. gm add a new engine for it? ha

worst selling camaro in history? id guess so but i don't have time to look it up.

[Sindri]

There is one other consideration that has only breifly been mentioned, but is worth considering, and that is emissions. I thought about it some and did some quick googling and found the following bit of information.

In April of this year the EPA issued a proposed rule about revising fuel economy and emissions standards that were set by the SAFE rule that went into effect in 2020. As some may recall, this was the controversial roleback of the 2012 CAFE standards. There were public meetings in August, and the public comment period was closed at the end of September. I don't think a ruling has been made, but if adopted these more stringent standards would go into effect in 2023.

Perhaps GM sees the writing on the wall and a "new" engine is required to meet these standards. And by new I mean applying LT2 components to the LT1, primarily in the form of a revised intake manifold and camshaft.

GM likely can't axe the Camaro completely without major repercussions - mainly from all the UAW jobs lost. My guess is they need to keep Camaro production moving along while they figure out a replacement built on the Alpha chassis or something similar that can be tooled in the Lansing plant. That would also explain why GM has been cagey about a drop dead date for the Camaro. It might also explain the continued constraint on the V6 engines.

Im not saying GM will put the LT2 in the Camaro, and I certainly don't think they want to. But they may be their best option at the moment.

[10mm]

I agree with the poster above.
2023 will be a short run

[s346k]

Originally Posted by Sindri

Im not saying GM will put the LT2 in the Camaro, and I certainly don't think they want to. But they may be their best option at the moment.

the only reason theyd replace the LT1 is for the trucks. they would let the camaro die, i think uaw backlash is a laughable threat.

a big part of what makes an LT2 an LT2 is the exhaust. that setup is not going on any other vehicle gm makes. emission compliance is heavily dependent on such, and that engine is a mid engine chassis puppy. nothing else.

[mRahmani]

LT2 will never come to the Camaro. Aside from the cost of recertifying an LT2 Camaro for EPA and CARB, there’s a fundamental electronics issue. Camaro is a GM Global A platform, and the LT2 engine software was written for GM Global B. The car’s entire electronic architecture would have to be updated to the new Global B platform - BCM, radio, the works. Absolutely not going to happen for a car that has maybe 2 years left.

IF a 7th gen car is ever approved for the A2 platform (which supports Global B) then sure, LT2 would be the obvious choice. But to my knowledge an A2 Camaro has never been planned.

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by s346k

the only reason theyd replace the LT1 is for the trucks. they would let the camaro die, i think uaw backlash is a laughable threat.

a big part of what makes an LT2 an LT2 is the exhaust. that setup is not going on any other vehicle gm makes. emission compliance is heavily dependent on such, and that engine is a mid engine chassis puppy. nothing else.

I dont think UAW is a laughable threat - there are probably significant monetary damages GM would incur if they shuttered the plant without a replacement for those folks to work on and had to let them all go. Think about it, if the Camaro is such a sales dog, the pamdemic, supply shortage, and all the on-again, off-again plant closures would have been the perfect excuse to axe the Camaro if they wanted. They didnt, and there has to be a reason for that.

The exhaust is part of the equation, but its also cam, intake manifold, dry sump oiling system, etc. As Ive said before, the Camaro wouldn't get a "real" LT2 because you are right, it's a mid-engine block. But its still part of the LT1 family. It uses many LT1 parts (crank, rods, pistons, heads, etc.)

What GM could/would do is adapt LT2 parts to the LT1 - make a "hybrid" engine. The cam and intake manifold practically bolt right up. An exhaust manifold redesign would require some extra effort though. EPA/CARB certification is not cheap, per se, but not exorbitantly expensive either and could be justified if the Camaro continues out through 2026, which has been a rumor. They may be counting on a sales bump, which I think 30+ HP might give them.

[Sindri]

[QUOTE=mRahmani;11099496]LT2 will never come to the Camaro. Aside from the cost of recertifying an LT2 Camaro for EPA and CARB, there’s a fundamental electronics issue. Camaro is a GM Global A platform, and the LT2 engine software was written for GM Global B. The car’s entire electronic architecture would have to be updated to the new Global B platform - BCM, radio, the works. Absolutely not going to happen for a car that has maybe 2 years left.

You're assuming 2 years, which most people are, and its not unreasonable. But I personally think the pandemic screwed things up so much, the successor is getting pushed back, and Camaro is sticking around till 2026. The Camaro is a sales dog, the pandemic, supply chain issues, etc. would be the perfect reason to just axe the Camaro, but they didn't. I think GM has UAW contracts and needs a successor that can be built in the Lansing plant, and its not ready yet.

As far as the electronics, part of the rumor is the Camaro will have an unlocked ECU, unlike the encrypted ECU in the Corvette. Theres no reason a Global A ECU couldnt run an LT2-like engine. Again, it wouldn't be an LT2 engine per-se, it will be an LT1 with LT2 parts bolted to it.