[serper3]

Originally Posted by semif18

I like these types of threads too, which is why I thought I'd just throw it out there. I'm definitely not the "my most current car is the most awesome car in the universe" guy. I appreciate each car for what it is and feel very fortunate to have owned 5 really great cars.

Agreed. As far as I am concerned, if you can't appreciate various cars for what they are, you are not really a car guy. Just a nut swinger trying to fit in to your little crew.

If it was up to me and space and money was not an issue, I would have so many cars... My top in no particular order:

1. 997 911 GT3
2. 458 Italia
3. 350R
4. ZLE
5. Huge turbo built trans Duramax
6. E46 m3
7. not sure what year, but an air cooled Porsche
8. big turbo supra
9. swapped 240

Getting a bit carried away lol, this is a lot of fun, but I can appreciate most cars. Narrowing down to a daily, truck, and fun car is the hardest part!

[serper3]

Originally Posted by semif18

I've got a buddy that has a GT350 (regular, not R). He went with us on a drive in the mountains. We ran pretty hard but not crazy. His car went into limp mode. Why Ford builds those cars with a "track pack" with the requisite cooling as an option is beyond me. His doesn't have the Track Pack he optioned for the technology package. They are supposed to be high performance Mustangs. I couldn't believe it. Of course my GT4 never got above normal operating temps.......ever! Having said that, I was VERY close to buying a 350R but the markup just rubbed me the wrong way and I passed. I'm glad I did. I really think I would have regretted not getting the ZLE.........

I would have only went with a '17+ they come with the track pack and the tech pack. Agreed, how could Ford do that with the 15-16 model year? It is absolutely insane no coolers and they all overheat so easily unless you have a track pack car.

But yea the engine issues are pretty scary, as well as the rebuild costs. I would probably buy used, so the markup isn't a concern, but i dont know, I test drove one, I think the need to constantly wind it out, no low end torque would get tiresome. I would want to whipple it like my 03 cobra but they dont have CARB legal kits yet (if ever). I think the high 6, low 7 whp range is a good amount of power I enjoy.

[semif18]

Originally Posted by serper3

Agreed. As far as I am concerned, if you can't appreciate various cars for what they are, you are not really a car guy. Just a nut swinger trying to fit in to your little crew.

If it was up to me and space and money was not an issue, I would have so many cars... My top in no particular order:

1. 997 911 GT3
2. 458 Italia
3. 350R
4. ZLE
5. Huge turbo built trans Duramax
6. E46 m3
7. not sure what year, but an air cooled Porsche
8. big turbo supra
9. swapped 240

Getting a bit carried away lol, this is a lot of fun, but I can appreciate most cars. Narrowing down to a daily, truck, and fun car is the hardest part!

My list would be:

1. 992 GT3 (Manual)
2. 991.2 GT3 (Manual) Can you tell I like GT3s!
3. 918
4. Tesla Roadster
5. Ferrari F40 (For me this is just the coolest Ferrari ever)
6. C8 Z06 (I'm putting this here fully knowing there is no actual render or pic of a C8 Z06 but I have a feeling it might be awesome - I'm not a fan of the regular C8)
7. 991 GT2 RS
8. 991 GT3 RS
9. Aston Martin Vantage
10. GT350R

[hawk02]

Originally Posted by semif18

I agree 100% about the value. I should have mentioned that. The ZLE is an unbelievable bargain for what you get. I don't think anything comes close for the price.

Both ZL1s are a heck of a bargain. I just bought a C8 corvette convertible. To get the same features that come standard on the ZL1 (HUD, memory seats, blind spots sensors, heated/ventilated seats, heated steering wheel, etc), I had to upgrade to the 2LT trim level at an additional cost of $7300! Even the mag ride and performance exhaust which come standard on the ZL1 are options on the Corvette. On top of all that the ZL1 gives you a 155 more horses!

I was really between a rock and a hard stop when I ordered the Corvette. No way could I buy a new Corvette with less features than my ZL1. Thanks to the Camaro team, my C8 ended up costing me a lot of money.

[Trak-Toy]

Very nice, detailed comparisons. I’ve owned a decent list of performance cars over the years. Seems I was always enjoying these cars for what they were, but always had the idea “If I could just change one thing on this car”.... since owning my ZLE, that thought has not entered my mind. This car really is the complete package.

You mentioned not taking it over 5k rpms yet. There’s not much more torque left after 5k, but there’s still more hp and this car will continue to pull all the way to 6500 in my experience so far. More fun to be had up top. Enjoy!

[d15b7]

really good discussion guys! I'm a recent owner of a basically new '20 ZLE. I'm a racer (SCCA and NASA and VRG) and also a PCA BMW Lotus HOD Chin NASA Instructor and do some pro coaching too. here's my take on things:

a couple years ago I was VIR full course with Chin and over three days had the chance to drive: '18 ZLE; C7 Z06/Z07; GT350 (non R); and GT4. all were stock with exception of Rcomps and racing pads. my observations (driving all the cars with the owners in the passenger seat at about 8.5-9 tenths):

1. GT4 was (as expected; I've driven them before) fantastic and fun and easy to drive fast. really really really great track car. but for me, not a ton of 'soul', I guess. lots of the modern P cars feel this way to me. great car tho.
2. GT350 was a huge surprise. this was a '16 model tech pack. of course it overheated within 12-15 minutes (transmission) and went into limp mode every session LOL. but -- this thing stirred the soul! LOVE LOVE LOVE the sounds and feel of winding out that NA Voodoo to 8200 rpm. trans shifted great. brakes were great. suspension was great. super fun car! 'felt' faster than the actual laptimes showed.

(I was within tenths of seconds the same in the GT4 as the GT350; but it 'felt' faster)

3. C7Z06/07 -- this car was fast. seconds faster than the GT4/GT350. but it took a LOT of concentration - it felt 'nervous' in ways to me when you were really letting it eat and trying for a good lap. pulled HARD! brakes were good (didn't feel as good to me as the GT4 and GT350). never overheated but the gauges were nudging the 'better slow down soon if it goes any higher' ranges after 20 mins. I got the feeling that this car would bite you if you weren't skilled and paying attention
4. ZLE -- oh. my. god. HUGE HUGE surprise to me! (I didn't really know anything about this car before I drove it, other than it was some sort of factory out-of-the box racecar with the Z06 motor in it.) I was slightly faster in the ZLE by like half a second than the Z06/07. but it was EASY. not nervous at all! and somehow even though it's supposed to be hundreds of pounds heavier than the Z06, it felt lighter. suspension was the best of the bunch and felt the most race oriented and best calibrated. the transmission is FANTASTIC; best shifting of the bunch. brakes were FANTASTIC - best of the bunch. and no drama no nervousness it just put in work. and NEVER got warm. gauges stayed right in the middle. felt like it could go all day putting in work. I was super SUPER impressed with it.

not even considering prices, it's a amazing car. considering the MSRP compared to the others? holy shit no brainer. it took me some years to scrape up the money and buy one (the fact that I found a Rally Green Metallic really pushed me over the edge!) but now I own one.

[JKM]

I have nothing to add other than to thank everyone for posting their impressions. I'm debating on moving up to a ZLE or really stretching my budget and seeing if I can get an allocation for a GT4 / GTS 4.0. Sounds like the ZLE's "specialness" is on par with the GT4, and seeing as this would mainly be a track car for me, it's a no brainer.

[closs2sx]

Originally Posted by d15b7

really good discussion guys! I'm a recent owner of a basically new '20 ZLE. I'm a racer (SCCA and NASA and VRG) and also a PCA BMW Lotus HOD Chin NASA Instructor and do some pro coaching too. here's my take on things:

a couple years ago I was VIR full course with Chin and over three days had the chance to drive: '18 ZLE; C7 Z06/Z07; GT350 (non R); and GT4. all were stock with exception of Rcomps and racing pads. my observations:

1. GT4 was (as expected; I've driven them before) fantastic and fun and easy to drive fast. really really really great track car. but for me, not a ton of 'soul', I guess. lots of the modern P cars feel this way to me. great car tho.
2. GT350 was a huge surprise. this was a '16 model brand new tech pack. of course it overheated within 12-15 minutes (transmission) and went into limp mode every session LOL. but -- this thing stirred the soul! LOVE LOVE LOVE the sounds and feel of winding out that NA Voodoo to 8200 rpm. trans shifted great. brakes were great. suspension was great. super fun car! 'felt' faster than the actual laptimes showed.

(I was within tenths of seconds the same in the GT4 as the GT350; but it 'felt' faster)

3. C7Z06/07 -- this car was fast. seconds faster than the GT4/GT350. but it took a LOT of concentration - it felt 'nervous' in ways to me when you were really letting it eat and trying for a fast fast lap. pulled HARD! brakes were good (didn't feel as good to me as the GT4 and GT350). never overheated but the gauges were nudging the 'better slow down soon if it goes any higher' ranges after 20 mins. I got the feeling that this car would bite you if you weren't skilled and paying attention
4. ZLE -- oh. my. god. HUGE HUGE surprise to me! (I didn't really know anything about this car before I drove it, other than it was some sort of factory out-of-the box racecar with the Z06 motor in it.) I was slightly faster in the ZLE by like half a second than the Z06/07. but it was EASY. not nervous at all! and somehow even though it's supposed to be hundreds of pounds heavier than the Z06, it felt lighter. the transmission is FANTASTIC; best shifting of the bunch. brakes were FANTASTIC - best of the bunch. and no drama no nervousness it just put in work. and NEVER got warm. gauges stayed right in the middle. felt like it could go all day putting in work. I was super SUPER impressed with it.

not even considering prices, it's a amazing car. considering the MSRP compared to the others? holy shit no brainer. it took me some years to scrape up the money and buy one (the fact that I found a Rally Green Metallic really pushed me over the edge!) but now I own one.

I think you hit the gt4 on the nose with "no soul" "easy to drive fast". Also have a c7 z06 with the z07 pkg and a zl1 1le I completely agree with you as I like driving my zl1 1le more. I like the way it shifts better (both manuals) and while I am comfortable in the Z06 I feel more at home in the Zl1 1le. Great to hear feed back from someone like yourself as I am a decent driver but by no means near professional but working on it every chance I can get lol

[semif18]

Originally Posted by d15b7

really good discussion guys! I'm a recent owner of a basically new '20 ZLE. I'm a racer (SCCA and NASA and VRG) and also a PCA BMW Lotus HOD Chin NASA Instructor and do some pro coaching too. here's my take on things:

a couple years ago I was VIR full course with Chin and over three days had the chance to drive: '18 ZLE; C7 Z06/Z07; GT350 (non R); and GT4. all were stock with exception of Rcomps and racing pads. my observations (driving all the cars with the owners in the passenger seat at about 8.5-9 tenths):

1. GT4 was (as expected; I've driven them before) fantastic and fun and easy to drive fast. really really really great track car. but for me, not a ton of 'soul', I guess. lots of the modern P cars feel this way to me. great car tho.
2. GT350 was a huge surprise. this was a '16 model tech pack. of course it overheated within 12-15 minutes (transmission) and went into limp mode every session LOL. but -- this thing stirred the soul! LOVE LOVE LOVE the sounds and feel of winding out that NA Voodoo to 8200 rpm. trans shifted great. brakes were great. suspension was great. super fun car! 'felt' faster than the actual laptimes showed.

(I was within tenths of seconds the same in the GT4 as the GT350; but it 'felt' faster)

3. C7Z06/07 -- this car was fast. seconds faster than the GT4/GT350. but it took a LOT of concentration - it felt 'nervous' in ways to me when you were really letting it eat and trying for a good lap. pulled HARD! brakes were good (didn't feel as good to me as the GT4 and GT350). never overheated but the gauges were nudging the 'better slow down soon if it goes any higher' ranges after 20 mins. I got the feeling that this car would bite you if you weren't skilled and paying attention
4. ZLE -- oh. my. god. HUGE HUGE surprise to me! (I didn't really know anything about this car before I drove it, other than it was some sort of factory out-of-the box racecar with the Z06 motor in it.) I was slightly faster in the ZLE by like half a second than the Z06/07. but it was EASY. not nervous at all! and somehow even though it's supposed to be hundreds of pounds heavier than the Z06, it felt lighter. suspension was the best of the bunch and felt the most race oriented and best calibrated. the transmission is FANTASTIC; best shifting of the bunch. brakes were FANTASTIC - best of the bunch. and no drama no nervousness it just put in work. and NEVER got warm. gauges stayed right in the middle. felt like it could go all day putting in work. I was super SUPER impressed with it.

not even considering prices, it's a amazing car. considering the MSRP compared to the others? holy shit no brainer. it took me some years to scrape up the money and buy one (the fact that I found a Rally Green Metallic really pushed me over the edge!) but now I own one.

Awesome update to the thread! I already mentioned it in another thread, I was literally one day too late buying your car (man oh man do I love that green)! As another poster mentioned above I'm a decent driver (taken high performance driving courses, etc.), but nowhere near your level so it's great to hear this from someone like yourself who can really dig into what these cars can do and explain the differences. I've been driving mine most days trying to get past the 1500 mile mark so I can really start laying into it......almost there.

Funny that the word "soul", or lack of, keeps popping up about the GT4. I guess it's a case of that car being almost too refined that maybe works against it. It's so smooth and so easy to drive. The best comparison of the GT4 to the ZLE is like a scalpel vs a sledgehammer. The GT4 just turns and goes, the ZLE does the same thing but with so much more......I don't know the best way to explain it......raw visceral oomph......LOL. Not a technical term but that's how I think of it. I think someone mentioned they are thinking of getting a GT4. I can't say anything bad about that car (well, the only thing was the carbon ceramics did squeak a bit). Super nice, extremely well built and fun. However, it would be hard to go back because the ZLE has so much more power, which is addicting!

[gtfoxy]

OP, try Sport 1 or 2 for the street. It’s nannied, but will allow you to lay down some power. If it gets too squirrelly it will jump in a proportionate amount.

I have yet to try dry as either of the sport modes works pretty well.

[semif18]

Originally Posted by JKM

I have nothing to add other than to thank everyone for posting their impressions. I'm debating on moving up to a ZLE or really stretching my budget and seeing if I can get an allocation for a GT4 / GTS 4.0. Sounds like the ZLE's "specialness" is on par with the GT4, and seeing as this would mainly be a track car for me, it's a no brainer.

One thing to think about is cost of ownership. The GT4 was my first Porsche. First oil change, nothing more, $450. 4 year OR 40,000 miles service, $2000. Porsche labor at the dealer is $300 an hour. I've had an internal debate with myself about whether Porsches are actually worth the $. They are exceptionally well built cars and feel very high end, but if you are purely talking price/performance there's no doubt American cars beat everyone. I say this with the mindset that someday I would like to have a GT3 in my driveway. But for now and hopefully for many years I will be enjoying the ZLE.

[seanblurr]

Interesting time on this thread, as I have contemplated going the opposite direction as you. Swapping my ZLE for a 718 Gt4 once this stop sale is figured out.


I assume you had a 981? Can you go into a little bit more detail on the comparison between each car?

My ZLE is basically a track ONLY car and sees almost no street time because of that. Like a lot of people, I haven't seen the track in months and probably won't for some time now. Hence, my idea of swapping to a GT4. Something that is a bit more streetable and fun. I personally, don't find the ZLE to be very fun on the street (way too bumpy for the backroads I live by).

[semif18]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

OP, try Sport 1 or 2 for the street. It’s nannied, but will allow you to lay down some power. If it gets too squirrelly it will jump in a proportionate amount.

I have yet to try dry as either of the sport modes works pretty well.

I'll try it, thanks!

[semif18]

Originally Posted by seanblurr

Interesting time on this thread, as I have contemplated going the opposite direction as you. Swapping my ZLE for a 718 Gt4 once this stop sale is figured out.


I assume you had a 981? Can you go into a little bit more detail on the comparison between each car?

My ZLE is basically a track ONLY car and sees almost no street time because of that. Like a lot of people, I haven't seen the track in months and probably won't for some time now. Hence, my idea of swapping to a GT4. Something that is a bit more streetable and fun. I personally, don't find the ZLE to be very fun on the street (way too bumpy for the backroads I live by).

Heading into work, but I'll post a more detailed comparison tonight.