[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by LostM

There is no single car in its price range, currently, that can hold a candle to it. All around world class performance at an affordable price
Stop being lazy

If you're gonna quote me then do it correctly. Otherwise don't even bother. I don't got time for trolls.

[bobby35ny]

I wont mention names, LOL
HOLY CRAP, what world do you people live in where a car that costs 90K is considered affordable???? OMFG

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

I wont mention names, LOL
HOLY CRAP, what world do you people live in where a car that costs 90K is considered affordable???? OMFG

Like I said earlier today, these guys are hugging soo tightly at this point that they'll say anything. Ford put this car in Evans hands knowing the fans would get soo worked up that they'd fall sucker for anything. Now they got reviewers running around like crack addicts off this car. And those markups are gonna skyrocket like nothing we've seen before, LOL!! The Base GT500 is a $74K car that you'll have to pay $100K to buy.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

GM shouldn't respond to this with the Camaro. Mustang for Ford is what Corvette is to GM. And Ford is ending the 6th generation Mustang with a bang before they switch to Turbo 6 or all electric Mustang for 7th generation.

Honestly, people care too much about power figures and 1/4 mile times. Cars are too fast and unusable for the street nowadays. Everyone is getting great 1/4 mile times. Ford is achieving it with their Drag Mode tuning/suspension tuning/tire and transmission setup. All put together, it makes for a car that is going to be unattainable for many people unlike the ZL1. Also with those carbon fiber wheels, I can only imagine how costly a replacement will be if something goes wrong. And of course, the 4200 lb curb weight , or 4170 for the track pack version is going to be felt.

The ZL1 is the better value and it's better looking to me. ZL1 is going to feel more balanced. ZL1 is much more attainable. ZL1 doesn't require costly CF wheels to cut some weight down.

So overall, the only thing that feels new to me in the GT500 is the DCT. 1/4 mile times and good handling can be achieved by any manufacturer today. But it is GM that brought an all new platform that deviated from the traditional approach to top trim muscle cars. Sadly though, no one will care and they will praise this car like no other just for the 1/4 time.

4,170 lbs for the base. I haven't seen a weight for the track pack version.

Based on the reviews I'm not so sure the ZL1 is the better balanced car; only time and some H2H analysis will tell if the ZL1 will feel more balanced. For $74k and the performance it brings, my opinion is the GT500 is the better value. And of course I think the Mustang looks much better.

I don't know what to say to those who keep saying the people who have driven this car and written about it are only praising it for the 1/4 mile times. That's not even remotely the case. The CFTP car has been praised for its handling, balance, and on track attributes. Most of the write-ups have been based on that car on the track, since that is the trim Ford provided for the track portion of the press event.

[LostM]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

No you didn't. Don't try to BS anyone. I've been following this car since day one. On every FB group and page and forum where this car was discussed the general consensus was that the CF version would be faster. However, since the Base is faster, it's kinda dumb that anyone would pay an extra $20K to have a slower car.

you seem to have a comprehension problem. base-1/4 mile, cftp-roadcourse. everyone with a brain knows this.


I don't give a flying eff what Owens said. I don't even know who the Hell he is.

I thought you just said youve been following the car fro the beginning? You would know EXACTLY who he is if you were. Stop lying

At the time I made those comments, there was no proof posted anywhere that it ran a 10.

Jim owens said it,ford said it: sub 11s means 10 - comprehension problems?

Since you know soo much, where were you when these discussions were taking place?
Ive ACTUALLY been following the car, where have you been?

Now all of a sudden you show up after the fact talking about what you knew days ago? Sure bro.

OK, dont believe me.. or go back through the content they and I have put out

You realize you just completely contradicted yourself right?

how so?

No, it isn't your fault that the car is in high demand. It IS your fault if you're dumb enough to pay extra for it.



I just said i paid sticker for it, and the fact it commands an ADM from some salesman, shows it IS in high demand. Not our fault GM is resorting to offering $$ TO mustang owners to buy their lackluster offerings

I get the last laugh

[LostM]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Like I said earlier today, these guys are hugging soo tightly at this point that they'll say anything. Ford put this car in Evans hands knowing the fans would get soo worked up that they'd fall sucker for anything. Now they got reviewers running around like crack addicts off this car. And those markups are gonna skyrocket like nothing we've seen before, LOL!! The Base GT500 is a $74K car that you'll have to pay $100K to buy.

What about the other drivers that ran 10s in vegas this past week? You skipped answering that one..

what about the fact most have msrp deals in place and ordered. want to answer how that happend, if you werent so wrong about everything?

[LostM]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

4,170 lbs for the base. I haven't seen a weight for the track pack version.

Based on the reviews I'm not so sure the ZL1 is the better balanced car; only time and some H2H analysis will tell if the ZL1 will feel more balanced. For $74k and the performance it brings, my opinion is the GT500 is the better value. And of course I think the Mustang looks much better.

I don't know what to say to those who keep saying the people who have driven this car and written about it are only praising it for the 1/4 mile times. That's not even remotely the case. The CFTP car has been praised for its handling, balance, and on track attributes. Most of the write-ups have been based on that car on the track, since that is the trim Ford provided for the track portion of the press event.

The largely aero, suspension, and lightweight package alters the GT500's demeanor from criminally loud, fast, fun, well-sorted, and highly predictable sports car—with more power than it sometimes knows what to do with—to a limited-production track-focused world-class supercar that excels and thrives because of that power. That it also provides so much driver feedback in such a neutral and balanced fashion is a real rarity. I've been fortunate to drive a few race cars, and this is as close as one can get to that with a fully outfitted interior and enough road manners to live with daily. That's not an exaggeration, nor is it easy to achieve.

I dont see a lot of mention on drag race there.. but I do see track ready.. but hey, motor trend is crap now that its proFord i guess. that guy is delusional

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

It is impressive to you. In your opinion. Don't try to tell me that I should be impressed with it. I'm not. And that is in my opinion. I don't care what Evans does in that car just like I didn't care what he did in the 18 GT. He impresses me even less.

Sure the GT500 will outrun a C8 Z51...up until 180 MPH that is. After which the Vette will catch up, walk past it, disappear in front of it, and the GT500 will never be seen again. But see one at a light and the $94K CF GT500 will get utterly embarrassed by a $65K Corvette!!

The reviews talked about how well it handles on the road. But again, that is only in the opinions from the reviewers. There is no data at this point on how well it actually performs on a track. I don't care how well they say it is on track, until they post the numbers their opinions and $1 is worth a Snickers bar.

I'm glad you're excited. Good for you. Personally, I don't care about any cars I don't own or don't plan to own. If you're that happy for the GT500 then you do you. But don't sit here thinking I'm gonna do the Blue Oval song and dance with you. The GT500 does not impress me one bit.

You didn't own up and you still haven't. I don't care what you meant because I can't read minds. I posted exactly what you said. If you meant something different than what you said then that is your fault. And regardless of what you were told, you commented on something that you had no proof of and behaved as if it was etched in granite by Moses. I expressed my doubts which I had every right to and you started trash talking. I don't care who says it ran 10s at that time. There was absolutely no proof posted anywhere that it did. You took their word for it because you are a Mustang fan and that is fine. I am not a Mustang fan. Yet you think your doubts and opinions are the only ones that matter.

Price, availability, performance. The only data you have for the GT500 is that it costs $74K MSRP, it's top speed is 180, and that it is faster in the quarter mile. You have nothing other than that except some rabid reviewer who pretty much is frothing at the mouth. The ZL1 has a 202 MPH top speed with an official top speed of 198 MPH. It has track times out. And it can be had at MSRP of $64K or below MSRP based on "heavy discounts" like newmoon likes to say. If you want a ZL1 you can buy one. On the other hand, face it, you are not getting a GT500 any time soon. So based on all the info we have available right now, the ZL1 is superior.

I wasn't telling you what to be impressed with. I'm personally more impressed with the 133 mph trap speed than the C8 11.1 sec. run. I think you're obviously trolling and pretending it isn't impressive, and you'll continue to pretend otherwise on here, and continue to claim it isn't impressive for whatever reason. Like I said, no other FE RWD car besides the 2019 ZR1 and Ferrari 812 Superfast trap anywhere near 133 mph. The Demon is capable of that trap speed, but I've yet to see a publication test to show that, other than YouTube videos. The Redeye doesn't come close (128 mph best trap speed I've seen). If there's another FE RWD that can do 133 mph bone stock, by all means, post a link.

The top speed is fast enough to be a non-issue to me. Acceleration, looks, handling, etc., all play a more critical and important role.

Regarding the handling, like I said, we'll see. A lot of people who drive and test cars for a living praised its handling in CFTP form. We'll see how it compares to the ZLE time-wise, in time.

You're likely the only person in this world who doesn't care about cars they don't own or plan to own. You come across as if you are somehow above caring for cars you may never own, but it just comes across as pathetic, honestly.

By me explaining what I meant to type was me owning up to the mistake in my post. The mistake was I wasn't specific in that I was referring to the drag portion of the press event. The drag strip was what the entire conversation was about at that time, so it's my bad for assuming someone would assume that is what I meant. But that is what I was referring to, the drag portion of the press event was base models, not CFTP. I was told it ran 10s by people who were there. They wouldn't say that unless it was backed up by the data a day later.

You said: "The objective data and the performance so far shows the Z51 and the ZL1 as being superior cars to the GT500. I have not seen anything to change my mind on that. If you'd care to debate it then I'll do so."

You didn't mention anything about price and availability, but now you bring it up since it's convenient. Rather than admit you were wrong, you are adding additional caveats to your incorrect observation to try to save face. You simply said based on what you've seen so far the ZL1 was a superior car. What we've seen so far is only drag strip times, and the numbers clearly show the GT500 to be faster at the strip. It's as plain as day. Any single person who says the ZL1 is objectively better at the drag strip is simply wrong at this point. You are clinging onto that claim by saying "what we've seen so far the ZL1 is the superior car". Yet you still hang onto it after multiple people have run 10s on the stock car in high DA, with a 10.6 second pass at 133 mph at 975' DA as the clear best time thus far. This type of thing is why your opinions can't be taken seriously. You are saying the ZL1 is an objectively superior car based on what we've seen so far, even though the GT500 is clearly faster in the only actual data that we've seen so far.

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

4,170 lbs for the base. I haven't seen a weight for the track pack version.

4170 is what I seen listed for the track pack by a widely viewed reviewer. He may have made a mistake though.

Based on the reviews I'm not so sure the ZL1 is the better balanced car; only time and some H2H analysis will tell if the ZL1 will feel more balanced. For $74k and the performance it brings, my opinion is the GT500 is the better value. And of course I think the Mustang looks much better.

Looks are subjective. Both look good to me but I'd say the ZL1 has an edge since I'm not really digging the front fascia of the GT500.

Why would you argue it's a better value(assuming you can get it at MSRP)? Because of the extra power and 1/4 mile time?

I don't know what to say to those who keep saying the people who have driven this car and written about it are only praising it for the 1/4 mile times. That's not even remotely the case. The CFTP car has been praised for its handling, balance, and on track attributes. Most of the write-ups have been based on that car on the track, since that is the trim Ford provided for the track portion of the press event.

I'm not talking about the reviewers, I'm talking about the general car community and especially muscle car fanboys. They will praise this car for its 1/4 mile time. And declare it the top dog based on that factor alone. Which is something that bothers me as I would never purchase a car based off of bragging rights.

The CFTP car will get great track times no doubt. Although look at what it needs to get that. 100 more hp, wider tires, huge brake rotors(bigger than ZL1), carbon fiber wheels, DCT transmission, beefier suspension bits, carbon fiber driveshaft, etc.

All of this needed to decrease weight whilst simultaneously beat the ZL1 in track times shows they were working with an inferior chassis/platform. So don't get me wrong, I like the car and support anything American, although it's clear to me which one will be an overall more balanced car. Just slower in a straight line. And that is the ZL1.

I would also wait for more reviews. I haven't seen anyone track it yet. Which is where we will see detailed impressions on the driving dynamics. Which I expect to be good because Ford had a lot of time to tune the driving dynamics of the car.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Well, if he hit it, then it is likely going to be the standard. Whether the magazine tests hit it is yet TBD. I've already admitted the e.t. will likely be higher in the magazine tests. I think the instrumented tests will be ~10.9 @ 132-133 mph or thereabouts.

MT's time is not an instrumented test - so what that MT ran 11.2 @ 130 in a high DA at a press event in a few runs in cars being hot lapped all day; there are multiple tests of it running 10s in that same high DA during the same event. Jalopnik ran an 11.3 @ 131 mph. That doesn't mean it's a low 11 sec. car. It means it's a 10 sec. car that wasn't hooking up.

I don't know why we're arguing about it being a 10 sec. car. It obviously is a 10 sec car.

Those were at a prepped surface crap strip, all the times you claim for the other cars were not. It hit tens for sure, but those are not comparable to the car rags times on unprepped surfaces to other cars.

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by LostM

I dont see a lot of mention on drag race there.. but I do see track ready.. but hey, motor trend is crap now that its proFord i guess. that guy is delusional

That better be track ready since it is advertised as an 18,000 dollar track package, with an overall commanding price of 95,000 plus taxes. It cost Ford a lot of money to create what Chevy could produce for 25 thousand less. So either the GT500 is not an attainable muscle car anymore and intended to compete with Corvette's/911's, or Ford is working with an inferior platform that required them to spend 5 years fine tuning this car to beat a product from 2016.

If this was released in 2017 I'd be somewhat impressed. But with a release in 2020 and a sky's high as a ceiling approach that has driven the costs up so much for this gens GT500, making it unattainable for a lot of muscle car fans, I'm not really feeling it.

If I valued 1/4 mile over everything else I would probably have a different opinion.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by newmoon

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry you can't use the data from the fast list as there is absolutely no proof that the cars were in fact 100% stock. Way to easy to be hiding mods tunes, E85, etc, etc. Go back and read the early ZL1 forums and the issues everyone was having trying to get the cars to 60', then a few claim to figure it out and magically gain 3-5 tenths over what everyone else is running. Following that even ZL1 with dragpacks couldn't duplicate those times.

And you can't compare drag strip numbers from guys trying to get a certain number to standardized car magazine publisher numbers on an unprepped surface.

Yes the new gt500 is badass and faster than the zl1, however these times from the press event and Evans times are not comparable to the zl1s motortrend or car and driver times.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

I'll take a C7 Z06 over this new GT500 any day. A lighter true coupe with a 7 speed manual is going to be more fun on the streets of Michigan where the roads are so patchy and uneven that you can't put the power down in most places.

All day, m7 for the win.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by LostM

lol



what about 10.8/ & 10.9 s at 130+ from other drivers in vegas? I was there

Again, the guys calling the zl1 a 11.4 11.5 car are referencing magazine numbers, in the hands of more capable better drivers at drag strips it can do better just like the gt500s ran faster times with better drivers. None of the journalists ran faster than 11.2, then some of the other media guys like stangmode ran 10.9s and even did a 10.6 in his private hero run.

You could be there all you want, doesn't change the fact that if people are going to claim magazine numbers on unprepped surfaces for the zl1 they need to be claiming what the magazines got with the gt500 to keep it an apples to apples comparison. It'd be better once they test it on an untapped surface like the zl1 but until we get that, their 11.2 is the only journalist number we have to compare it to.

Obviously it ran 10s, I'm obviously talking about comparing apples to apples.