[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by SpookShow'84

When you get beat in the 1/4 by bus lengths, yeah.

It's not underpowered, people have become spoiled by cars that are OVERpowered for their class.

The current 5.0 (435 hp) is enough to push the car into the mid-high 12's on 235 all seasons...that's pretty quick. Remember when it was a really big deal when the 2010 SS hit 12.9 @112 in the 1/4 in testing? Or when the 2011 5.0 did 12.8?

People have become spoiled and expect too much from the segment. Having a 435hp, affordable and reasonably fuel efficient coupe for $33,500ish is a steal in todays market.

[ChevyRules]

The Mustang will get more expensive as time moves on as well. As fuel prices will go back up, fuel economy regs get stricter, self-driving cars take off, they will be driving sales of Camaro's, Mustang's, etc down and price up to compensate or you might even see the Camaro and Mustang die off.

The days of having a car with a V8 for (relatively) cheap are numbered. It's why I am saving as much money as I can now so I can pick up a 6th gen Camaro SS in the next year or two because I don't see them remaining affordable for me in the next 10 years or so.

Whether this was GM's game plan was to accept these lower sales for higher profits or they got arrogant and thought people would pay the premium, I don't know. Maybe it was a combination of both. We can quarter back all we want about the evolutionary redesign, price, etc. But, the price of Camaro's and Mustangs are only going to go higher in the future.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by SpookShow'84

When you get beat in the 1/4 by bus lengths, yeah.

nonsense...I will beat a '16 SS by over a Football field in the 1/4 and that does not make the SS underpowered.

[SpookShow'84]

Not in an apples to apples stock '16 M.Y. race. The Chevy will see the mustang not in the sideview, but the rearview mirror.

You don't think Camaro guys will mod their stuff too? More cubes less weight!

You Mustang guys have big easy to press buttons, lol. Go back to M6G where you belong.

[Posaune]

Gotta LOL at people saying a 435 HP Mustang GT is underpowered or a 375HP R/T. I mean, really? I know some of your guys were around for 185HP Iroc Camaros. Hell, I remember reading the articles that were amazed by the 400HP 1992 Dodge Viper. It wasn't too long ago that these power levels were seen in Lamborghinis and Ferraris and were considered exotic.

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by Posaune

Gotta LOL at people saying a 435 HP Mustang GT is underpowered or a 375HP R/T. I mean, really? I know some of your guys were around for 185HP Iroc Camaros. Hell, I remember reading the articles that were amazed by the 400HP 1992 Dodge Viper. It wasn't too long ago that these power levels were seen in Lamborghinis and Ferraris and were considered exotic.

Totally agree. We really are very lucky to be able to walk into any dealer and buy the kinds of powerful fun cars that we can. It hasn't always been that way.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Bassment

I think GM would be crazy to NOT abandon 80% of the market. That 80% is going to have self-driving cars in a couple of years. There's no money in non-enthusiast performance cars in the near future.

You honestly think anyone is going to buy a self-driving car over which they have no control? The Orwellian insanity of "self-driving" cars is being pushed hard worldwide by entities who could care less about your 'convenience'. It's about the usual two things they're always interested in; power and control. They're going to push this insanity on the public through environmental mandates (excuses) to justify laws 'requiring' this, and the tax payer will foot the bill. Individuals won't own one because the whole idea is to remove the importance of the individual. It will be mass control of the masses and their ability to move about as they please. It will be government mandated and controlled transportation. They'll change the roads and traffic systems to make this possible, then levy abusive fees on 'ignorant luddites' (anyone) that wants to actually own one of the 'old and outdated' modes of transportation and drive it on the new 'modern' system. It won't take long before even that goes away as they strive to outlaw and ban any individually controlled vehicle on public roads in the major cities. You'll have to park it outside of the city somewhere and take one of the 'modern and convenient' self-driving cars. There will be a massive indoctrination campaign from the media; lots of movies and TV specials showing how enlightened the people are who are doing this. Lots of manufactured 'testimony' of how wonderful this is. The media will deliberately ignore any reports of any problems; especially the sanitation issues inside the cars. I can't think of a faster and better way to transmit lice, fleas, bedbugs, and communicable diseases.

This is the advertising industry's wildest dream. A captive audience forced to watch and listen to advertising being pushed non-stop into these cars. You know those loud annoying videos showing on some gas pumps? Imagine that in your face all the time everywhere you go.

There will be lots of teething problems, including legal and insurance issues. They will always blame the individuals, especially old people, for causing the problems in the system. "We've got to stop these people from driving their old and outdated cars! They're harming the environment! Killing children!". Imagine the cost and function of obamacare in the form of a self-driving car system. What happens if it breaks down? If there's a fire? The last person just in it was drunk and threw up? There are stains on the seat and you don't know what they are? You need to get to school or work and there's a problem in the system and your car hasn't shown up yet?

The auto companies are falling all over themselves developing this because they know there will be government contracts to buy fleets of them; individuals won't even have the option. The only involvement individuals will have is the ones who are working and pay taxes will have to pay for it all.

Geez I should write a book; a new and updated version of 1984. Orwell wrote that book based on what he was seeing in the 1930's; I can't imagine what he would think if he could see the world today. This 'dream' is a nightmare, as all socialist/communist ideology controlled ideas/systems are, which is what his book was about.

And now! Cue the tinfoil hat, 'step away from the keyboard', 'take your meds', etc. comments from the paid drones whose job it is to begin the conditioning campaign to control thought and speech and tell the public what their opinion should be.

GM... create a new pony car. Aim squarely at the 80%. Make it great, make it fun, make lots of sales. Give it a name celebrating freedom and individuality. Make them in red, white and blue. Make us proud!

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Emoto

Totally agree. We really are very lucky to be able to walk into any dealer and buy the kinds of powerful fun cars that we can. It hasn't always been that way.

..and I wouldn't expect it for too much longer. With CAFE ratings getting a big bump in the not so distant future, you will see much lower horsepower numbers down the road.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

..and I wouldn't expect it for too much longer. With CAFE ratings getting a big bump in the not so distant future, you will see much lower horsepower numbers down the road.

Well then that would really make our 6th Gens valuable

I am spoiled with this car now, I couldn't imagine having to go backwards to the days of only having vehicles with much less horsepower available.

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by Doc

You honestly think anyone is going to buy a self-driving car over which they have no control? The Orwellian insanity of "self-driving" cars is being pushed hard worldwide by entities who could care less about your 'convenience'. It's about the usual two things they're always interested in; power and control. They're going to push this insanity on the public through environmental mandates (excuses) to justify laws 'requiring' this, and the tax payer will foot the bill. Individuals won't own one because the whole idea is to remove the importance of the individual. It will be mass control of the masses and their ability to move about as they please. It will be government mandated and controlled transportation. They'll change the roads and traffic systems to make this possible, then levy abusive fees on 'ignorant luddites' (anyone) that wants to actually own one of the 'old and outdated' modes of transportation and drive it on the new 'modern' system. It won't take long before even that goes away as they strive to outlaw and ban any individually controlled vehicle on public roads in the major cities. You'll have to park it outside of the city somewhere and take one of the 'modern and convenient' self-driving cars. There will be a massive indoctrination campaign from the media; lots of movies and TV specials showing how enlightened the people are who are doing this. Lots of manufactured 'testimony' of how wonderful this is. The media will deliberately ignore any reports of any problems; especially the sanitation issues inside the cars. I can't think of a faster and better way to transmit lice, fleas, bedbugs, and communicable diseases.

This is the advertising industry's wildest dream. A captive audience forced to watch and listen to advertising being pushed non-stop into these cars. You know those loud annoying videos showing on some gas pumps? Imagine that in your face all the time everywhere you go.

There will be lots of teething problems, including legal and insurance issues. They will always blame the individuals, especially old people, for causing the problems in the system. "We've got to stop these people from driving their old and outdated cars! They're harming the environment! Killing children!". Imagine the cost and function of obamacare in the form of a self-driving car system. What happens if it breaks down? If there's a fire? The last person just in it was drunk and threw up? There are stains on the seat and you don't know what they are? You need to get to school or work and there's a problem in the system and your car hasn't shown up yet?

The auto companies are falling all over themselves developing this because they know there will be government contracts to buy fleets of them; individuals won't even have the option. The only involvement individuals will have is the ones who are working and pay taxes will have to pay for it all.

Geez I should write a book; a new and updated version of 1984. Orwell wrote that book based on what he was seeing in the 1930's; I can't imagine what he would think if he could see the world today. This 'dream' is a nightmare, as all socialist/communist ideology controlled ideas/systems are, which is what his book was about.

And now! Cue the tinfoil hat, 'step away from the keyboard', 'take your meds', etc. comments from the paid drones whose job it is to begin the conditioning campaign to control thought and speech and tell the public what their opinion should be.

GM... create a new pony car. Aim squarely at the 80%. Make it great, make it fun, make lots of sales. Give it a name celebrating freedom and individuality. Make them in red, white and blue. Make us proud!

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter, sir.

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

..and I wouldn't expect it for too much longer. With CAFE ratings getting a big bump in the not so distant future, you will see much lower horsepower numbers down the road.

[Bassment]

Originally Posted by Doc

You honestly think anyone is going to buy a self-driving car over which they have no control? The Orwellian insanity of "self-driving" cars is being pushed hard worldwide by entities who could care less about your 'convenience'. It's about the usual two things they're always interested in; power and control. They're going to push this insanity on the public through environmental mandates (excuses) to justify laws 'requiring' this, and the tax payer will foot the bill. Individuals won't own one because the whole idea is to remove the importance of the individual. It will be mass control of the masses and their ability to move about as they please. It will be government mandated and controlled transportation. They'll change the roads and traffic systems to make this possible, then levy abusive fees on 'ignorant luddites' (anyone) that wants to actually own one of the 'old and outdated' modes of transportation and drive it on the new 'modern' system. It won't take long before even that goes away as they strive to outlaw and ban any individually controlled vehicle on public roads in the major cities. You'll have to park it outside of the city somewhere and take one of the 'modern and convenient' self-driving cars. There will be a massive indoctrination campaign from the media; lots of movies and TV specials showing how enlightened the people are who are doing this. Lots of manufactured 'testimony' of how wonderful this is. The media will deliberately ignore any reports of any problems; especially the sanitation issues inside the cars. I can't think of a faster and better way to transmit lice, fleas, bedbugs, and communicable diseases.

This is the advertising industry's wildest dream. A captive audience forced to watch and listen to advertising being pushed non-stop into these cars. You know those loud annoying videos showing on some gas pumps? Imagine that in your face all the time everywhere you go.

There will be lots of teething problems, including legal and insurance issues. They will always blame the individuals, especially old people, for causing the problems in the system. "We've got to stop these people from driving their old and outdated cars! They're harming the environment! Killing children!". Imagine the cost and function of obamacare in the form of a self-driving car system. What happens if it breaks down? If there's a fire? The last person just in it was drunk and threw up? There are stains on the seat and you don't know what they are? You need to get to school or work and there's a problem in the system and your car hasn't shown up yet?

The auto companies are falling all over themselves developing this because they know there will be government contracts to buy fleets of them; individuals won't even have the option. The only involvement individuals will have is the ones who are working and pay taxes will have to pay for it all.

Geez I should write a book; a new and updated version of 1984. Orwell wrote that book based on what he was seeing in the 1930's; I can't imagine what he would think if he could see the world today. This 'dream' is a nightmare, as all socialist/communist ideology controlled ideas/systems are, which is what his book was about.

And now! Cue the tinfoil hat, 'step away from the keyboard', 'take your meds', etc. comments from the paid drones whose job it is to begin the conditioning campaign to control thought and speech and tell the public what their opinion should be.

GM... create a new pony car. Aim squarely at the 80%. Make it great, make it fun, make lots of sales. Give it a name celebrating freedom and individuality. Make them in red, white and blue. Make us proud!

That's what I'm saying. The 80% isn't buying self-driving cars, they're riding in them and not owning them. Gm will just own a bunch of self driving cars and the 80% will pay for rides. That's way easier money than a low profit completely new car that would never get an ROI

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

It's not underpowered, people have become spoiled by cars that are OVERpowered for their class.

The current 5.0 (435 hp) is enough to push the car into the mid-high 12's on 235 all seasons...that's pretty quick. Remember when it was a really big deal when the 2010 SS hit 12.9 @112 in the 1/4 in testing? Or when the 2011 5.0 did 12.8?

People have become spoiled and expect too much from the segment. Having a 435hp, affordable and reasonably fuel efficient coupe for $33,500ish is a steal in todays market.

lol

[andrec10]

Originally Posted by SpookShow'84

Not in an apples to apples stock '16 M.Y. race. The Chevy will see the mustang not in the sideview, but the rearview mirror.

You don't think Camaro guys will mod their stuff too? More cubes less weight!

You Mustang guys have big easy to press buttons, lol. Go back to M6G where you belong.