[Cgocifer]

Originally Posted by F1FTY

Never mentioned it being a family car nor should it be because in today’s market that means SUV.

Everyday car simply being better interior room, storage and outward visibility.

There’s a sliding scale here and things can be tweaked without taking away from the vehicles intention (see Mustang)

Obviously on Alpha this is a tough thing to accomplish. Just spit balling

Idk, never heard anyone complain about visibility or interior room when discussing a Lamborghini or 911 Porsche. I guess folks who buy those know they are buying a purpose built, stylish, high performance car... totally different league, just making a point.

[Cgocifer]

Hmm, this may be a stretch, but I wonder if those 2019 refresh cheek bones are supposed to emulate the bumperlets of the 1970 z28? The standard 1970 camaro had a full bumper that split the grill like the 2019 RS.

Starting to see some 1970 Camaro styling queues.

[Cldgin2]

This family today is looking SUV or four door truck. A Camaro for today’s family not even on the radar

Originally Posted by Doc

I never said make it an everyday car. Make it a great looking car inside and out, and it will appeal to a wider customer base, which means more sales. Here's a pic from a 1970 Camaro marketing brochure from Chevrolet. They clearly intended it to be more than just a one-driver car.

Attachment 930858

That customer base is still out there, and it's far bigger than the forum enthusiast base. They can keep the lettered, hi-po models for the enthusiast. They just need a reborn base pony car with the kinds of looks that stop people in their tracks, and causes them to go look at them in the showroom. From the outside, the 6th gen looks cramped and uncomfortable, and that perception is enough to stop a lot of people from even considering it.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Cgocifer

Hmm, this may be a stretch, but I wonder if those 2019 refresh cheek bones are supposed to emulate the bumperlets of the 1970 z28? The standard 1970 camaro had a full bumper that split the grill like the 2019 RS.

Starting to see some 1970 Camaro styling queues.

You and me sir! I had mentioned this many posts ago but nobody noticed. Imo there is an absolute throwback to the split bumper. To me they went "modern retro" look and it works as far as i am concerned.

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

I don't think they should make the Camaro an everyday car and its not a family car, as much as some people want it to be its not . I don't think it was ever meant to be either .

Not an everyday car? Why? I drive mine everyday like I did every other car I have owned. I get ancy to drive mine if I ever miss a day.

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by Doc

The 5th gen concept car was the vision of a single designer; it had nothing to do with committees, focus groups or polls. It wasn't perfect, but the moment I saw it I wanted one; it didn't have to 'grow' on me. It was a huge hit right out of the gate. Sangyup Lee, the original designer is no longer with Chevy.

What I'm seeing now is just confirmation of what I've felt has been going on ever since they did the first 'refresh'. This latest refresh to me, just illustrates the sad fact that the Chevy design department has no idea what to do with the Camaro. They have no vision of what a Camaro truly is or should be. The engineering team has delivered a spectacular performer; best high-performance sports gt America has ever produced. The body and interior however, just don't rise to the same level of brilliance.

I'm a Camaro fan. Blue Angel is still in my garage. It'll be 9 years now since I first picked it up after ordering it sight-unseen. I'd never driven one or seen one before I ordered it in May of 2009. I just knew I wanted it, and I've never regretted that decision. It pains me to see the design department floundering around with inconsistent, "I wonder if they'll like this?" attempts to modify the Camaro's looks and style.

Chevy's problem is they've priced the car into territory that has some seriously stiff competition. In September of last year, I bought a brand new Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Lusso. It's Monte Carlo Blue with a Crema interior that's a stunning combination of Italian leather and real walnut. It came with a 280 hp turbo 4, and a chassis that's flat-out the best I've ever experienced. The car was designed by a team of Ferrari and Maserati engineers, and developed and tested in Ferrari's development center and wind tunnel. Essentially, it's a 4 door Ferrari. The price? The base model starts at about $39k, and the one I got which has just about every option you can get, retailed for about $53k. Their top performer, the Giulia Quadrifoglio has the Ferrari V6 with 505 hp, goes 190 mph and starts at about $75k.

For the same $50k, there's no comparison between the Camaro SS and the Giulia Ti. The Camaro has more power and would out-perform the Giulia on the track, but only because of horsepower. The steering and chassis of the Giulia is simply incredible. However... the body and interior of the Giulia exudes refinement, class and style. Pictures don't come close to doing it justice. When you see one in person the styling radiates beauty; a beautiful Italian sculpted masterpiece, with consistent lines and styles from front to back, and inside too. This car clearly was designed by people who had a distinct idea and understanding of what a modern Alfa Romeo should look like and be. All Giulia's, even the base model, come with a carbon fiber driveshaft standard.

Just because the Giulia was designed by Ferrari and Maserati designers, that shouldn't make that much difference. A pencil and sketchpad costs the same no matter what you're designing. Chevy's problem is a lack of vision. They just don't know what to do with the Camaro, which is sadly starting to make it look like the 5th gen was a fluke; inotherwords, they basically got lucky.

I haven't been in this forum for awhile, but I remember having discussions with Number 3 about the need for Chevy to re-invent the pony car and come out with a base Camaro that positions itself back in the sweet spot of the market base it used to be in. It's now gotten to the point where they're going to be in trouble with this car, unless they pull a pretty big rabbit out of their hat. It's getting killed in the price segment it's sitting in now. Track performance isn't enough. You can't really use that kind of performance on the street anymore, and how many people actually take their car to a track?

Keep the high performance models, but come out with a new vision of a re-invented Camaro pony car. The $40k-$80k affluent customer is not at all like the $20k-$30k customer. They are much more demanding, and they can be, because every car maker is going out of their way to cater to them. This includes style, features and looks; not just track performance.

Mark Reuss, or whoever is in charge of the Camaro... PLEASE find a designer with a vision! Forget polls and focus groups. That only leads to design that looks like something the government would do. No more toy robot crap. No more design by committee with 5 different groups in charge of 5 different parts of the car.

Compare what $50k gets you from the new Camaro SS versus the Alfa Romeo Giulia, and this is just in the style and looks department, which believe me, is seriously important to the buyer who can spend $50k:

Alfa Romeo Giulia:
Attachment 930781

Has a definite look of identity to the heritage of Alfa Romeo, yet is clearly a modern design. The cabin is spacious and has good visibility. Very comfortable to be in. A pure joy to drive.


2019 Camaro SS:
Attachment 930782

Everyone's already said enough about the front. The body side is too high, the cabin height is too squashed. Looks out of proportion.


Alfa Romeo Giulia interior:
Attachment 930783

Attachment 930784

Elegant. The display is beautifully integrated into the dash. Steering wheel has the start button on it, and is modern but retains a classic feel.


2019 Camaro:
Attachment 930785

Is this supposed to be some kind of a military look? Thick chunky steering wheel looks like something out of a truck. And the screen... really? Looks like an add-on someone bought at Auto-Zone. For $50k?


The fact that when you start it up, it runs and handles like cars twice it's price, just isn't enough to save it's image. Looks matter. People buy on the basis of how it makes them feel when they look at it. If Chevy doesn't figure this out with the 7th gen, it may be the last Camaro, only this time for real.

I'll take the Super Sport Camaro over the Alfalfa any day.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Cgocifer

Hmm, this may be a stretch, but I wonder if those 2019 refresh cheek bones are supposed to emulate the bumperlets of the 1970 z28? The standard 1970 camaro had a full bumper that split the grill like the 2019 RS.

Starting to see some 1970 Camaro styling queues.

Haha! Talk about reaching. If this was their idea, talk about a colossal failure.

There is absolutely nothing in that pile that says 70 split bumper. Face it. This car is just plain ugly. Its obvious that they are trying to cling to the sucess of a movie about toys.

[Boost Creep]

The Alfa looks like it has a horse collar hung on the front.

If the Edsel had stayed in production, it would look like the Alfa today.





I see nothing attractive in this picture.
That's why taste is subjective and we have so many different cars to choose from.

[Koldunic]

I’ll also take the Camaro over the Alfa Romeo.

Don’t like the look of it. But can understand why some like it.

[samurai]

Comparing a boring 4-door sedan with some american muscle

If you need space for your kids or a perfect visiblity don't buy a sportscar. I love that Chevy went all in for taking the best out of the muscle car and sportscar world. Having a fast sedan is fine, but nothing compared to letting the V8 roar on a backroad and having a visual styling that screams how much power you have.
I will always prefer the M4 like Performance instead of a bit less space compared to the Mustang. Driving a SS with MR after having a GT with Performance Package is like night and day.

I get that many people are not liking the refresh and don't care about performance, but I really hope Chevy will stay far away from the classy european design that everybody is doing now. I'm also prefering the look of my 18 Camaro, but the 19 Camaro is still better looking than the 18 Mustang, which lost the last bit of it's american visuals.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by Michael2000

I think the Guilia makes most other cars look out of date and boring. It's a great design.

The 5th Gen Camaro did the same, but, GM has been diluting the looks ever since, and now they are just botching it up. Meanwhile, the Camaro engineers keep upping their game. The car gets faster, and better every year. The designers are not holding up their end of the bargain. They need to go. They need a whole new design team, exterior and interior.

From Doc:
Alfa Romeo Giulia:

Has a definite look of identity to the heritage of Alfa Romeo, yet is clearly a modern design. The cabin is spacious and has good visibility. Very comfortable to be in. A pure joy to drive.

Great post Doc! You got us thinking. But the Giulia is a 4 door sedan which has different design objectives than a Camaro. Of course it is a better car. As to looks, well they are very subjective. It is a better looking car than the M3 and the defunct Chevy competitor, the SS. LOL By a mile! But bug like front end may not wear well over time.

However I disagree about the current Camaro. The design has great lines and bones that are even better than the 5th gen. I do agree the 5th Gen Camaro is special. It is a show car brought to life to a Camaro starved market. But they had to create that car from a larger sedan which created some awkward angles. The interior to me was a grandslam home run except for the cheap materials used. The 6th gen fixed the materials but the design fell down by a mile.

The new Camaro has a cleaner appearance than the 5th but has a look already common place due to the popularity of the 5th gen. Also the Camaro does not have the market charisma as the Mustang. Not sure whose fault that is if it is anyones.

The 2019 Camaro SS has 2 problems from a looks perspective, that middle section needs to be color matched to the car and the flow tie needs to be moved into the grill. Then give the look time and problem fixed.

We whine about the price of the current Camaro and Mustang, but anyone who can afford a new car can buy a fast version of either car that can perform better than anything else in that price range and look better. But of course may not be better as a car. Both V8 versions for under $40K can out perform anything else in that price range by a lot. They are both well equipped and if we weren't so spoiled that would be enough to make us happy. We want every luxury and performance option, even if we do not know how to use all that performance or even bother to use all the toys.

I think a cramped interior and limited visibility hurt Camaro sales most. Certainly not the looks. I get lots of compliments. Many tell me they like the new Camaro better, especially the younger crowd. But the look is not new and fewer people notice. However my latest ZL1 gets more compliments and stares than my 5th gen ZL1 and all my other past cars. But of course Red Hot is a striking color.

Finally I will say this:

The CA6 ZL1 (and all CA6 Camaros):

Has a definite look of identity to the heritage of past Chevrolet Camaros, yet is clearly a modern design. The cabin has the look of a no nonsense performance car with modern conveniences. It is Very comfortable to be in and is designed for the driver as the top priority. And is a pure joy and a blast to drive.

And even though it may seem like it I am not a Camaro fan boy. But what Chevy has done with the Camaro hits my car sweet spot like no other.

[apexit53]

Personally I think sports cars such as the camaro and vette shouldn't be subject to the manufactures current styling ques... and thats what this latest refresh is.

"we must make it look like our other cars so people know who makes it"

[RLHMARINES]

2019 Camaro SS 1LE or is it....

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=526531

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by Michael2000

I think the Guilia makes most other cars look out of date and boring. It's a great design.

The 5th Gen Camaro did the same, but, GM has been diluting the looks ever since, and now they are just botching it up. Meanwhile, the Camaro engineers keep upping their game. The car gets faster, and better every year. The designers are not holding up their end of the bargain. They need to go. They need a whole new design team, exterior and interior.

When I see a Guiia I see a design from an eight year old BMW , just like the Kia Stinger , nothing new .
The 5th Gen was designed from a car that’s been around for over 40 years , it’s easy to design the past it’s hard to design for the future, that’s where Camaro is now and that’s hard for a lot of people to wrap there head around. What you see in the refresh Camaro you will start seeing in other cars , including the new Mustang GT500 , Like it not