2016/2017 Camaro SS K&N Drop-in Filter Dyno Results and Review - Page 3

Fraxum · 09-09-2016, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

If a car isn't on the stock list due to a filter change, that is beyond dumb. So if someone changes the air filter to a Puralator that's a "mod" too? Or if they are running a different oil filter? A drop in filter, K&N or not, in an otherwise stock car is well, still stock...

I was not part of the argument. I guess there would be one here too.

TSloper · 09-09-2016, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer70

That is some crazy margin of error. In most of my runs it will always be 2-3hp and trq. Anything above that is consistent back to back is a gain in my book.

Overall it all comes down to testing. I like to test my car after it has been warmed up and let sit for a few hours to cool, that gives a better real world result, over just strapping the car on the dyno and busting out runs.

But it all comes down to the margin of error and overall averages of the runs.My averages align with the results posts. but the bigger story is the grph, you can clearly see the gain through the entire RPM band.

Timing will have a big impact and unless you can confirm the timing is exactly the same between runs you can't draw any conclusions. Burst knock could be active and if you don't log the correct PID you wouldn't know it. This could cost you 2-3 degrees right there and TQ/HP.

I've done many many runs and have collected lots of logs. Even with 93 octane the factory timing is not perfect for all. In many cases the factory timing is a bit too aggressive but they rely on the knock sensor mechanisms in the ECM to deal with it. The factory essentially rides the edge... sometimes you are on the right side sometimes you are on the wrong side. On my car I have to pull timing around 6200+ or it will knock every time. Take out 2 degrees there and it is perfect.

Tim

JFM-jr · 09-10-2016, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSloper

Timing will have a big impact and unless you can confirm the timing is exactly the same between runs you can't draw any conclusions. Burst knock could be active and if you don't log the correct PID you wouldn't know it. This could cost you 2-3 degrees right there and TQ/HP.

I've done many many runs and have collected lots of logs. Even with 93 octane the factory timing is not perfect for all. In many cases the factory timing is a bit too aggressive but they rely on the knock sensor mechanisms in the ECM to deal with it. The factory essentially rides the edge... sometimes you are on the right side sometimes you are on the wrong side. On my car I have to pull timing around 6200+ or it will knock every time. Take out 2 degrees there and it is perfect.

Tim

Do you think the runs would mirror each other the way the graph in the vid shows if that were the case. I understand what your saying for sure I know your not drawing any conclusions either way without logs I just am pointing out the 2 graphs over layed are identical for the most part across the curve just a few hp apart.

NITRA10 · 09-16-2016, 11:30 AM

I received my filter ordered from PHASTEK

Install time took 10 min, and after driving it around for a while to let the ecu relearn the airflow I definitely like it. Worth the $70. I wholeheartedly understand all gains will be negligible when the car has 400HP to the wheels, but acceleration is better and I love the WOOSH sound on downshifts with the A8

Good stuff!

SS 1LE · 09-16-2016, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NITRA10

I received my filter ordered from PHASTEK

Install time took 10 min, and after driving it around for a while to let the ecu relearn the airflow I definitely like it. Worth the $70. I wholeheartedly understand all gains will be negligible when the car has 400HP to the wheels, but acceleration is better and I love the WOOSH sound on downshifts with the A8

Good stuff!

So you really think you feel a difference after a drop in K&N?

You must have the worlds most sensitive butt dyno.

NITRA10 · 09-16-2016, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

So you really think you feel a difference after a drop in K&N?

You must have the worlds most sensitive butt dyno.

I said acceleration is better. I didn't say the car is now a jet powered dragster.

Ventmaster · 09-16-2016, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer70

My goal is to be helpful, nothing more.

Sez the guy with the free swag!

Just kidding thanks for all the good info Sledge!

Slem · 09-16-2016, 01:56 PM

I installed mine a day ago and was not looking for much at all, I will say this. It's seems to be better then the paper filter. The car seems to definitely respond better to my foot.

KyBoy · 09-16-2016, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slem

I installed mine a day ago and was not looking for much at all, I will say this. It's seems to be better then the paper filter. The car seems to definitely respond better to my foot.

+1

JFM-jr · 09-16-2016, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

If a car isn't on the stock list due to a filter change, that is beyond dumb. So if someone changes the air filter to a Puralator that's a "mod" too? Or if they are running a different oil filter? A drop in filter, K&N or not, in an otherwise stock car is well, still stock...

Agreed a drop in being considered modified is a lil ridiculous

DisturbedSS · 10-09-2016, 01:23 AM

The gains really come from tuning to take full advantage of the less restrictive flow. Ive done similar tune comparisons with both drop ins and a full CAI swap and never really felt a difference.

There may be additional HP on the dyno for those into numbers, but Im more into driving feel. If the stock airbox with a drop-in is sufficient for a magnuson S/C install, it cant be a huge restriction to the overall setup.

AndyUK · 10-09-2016, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisturbedSS

The gains really come from tuning to take full advantage of the less restrictive flow. Ive done similar tune comparisons with both drop ins and a full CAI swap and never really felt a difference.

There may be additional HP on the dyno for those into numbers, but Im more into driving feel. If the stock airbox with a drop-in is sufficient for a magnuson S/C install, it cant be a huge restriction to the overall setup.

If you call being down 40hp and 1lb of boost "sufficient" then yeah sure, why not.

DisturbedSS · 10-09-2016, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyUK

If you call being down 40hp and 1lb of boost "sufficient" then yeah sure, why not.

fly..bzzzzz...<SWAT>

DisturbedSS · 10-09-2016, 04:26 AM

Hang on a sec...theres a fly juuust above my head.......<SWAT>

there we go...
I typically bought CAIs and tuned them on past cars, but am seeing minimal gains now on the newer generation cars. The last 2 Corvettes, just did the drop-ins with a tune and the drive was much improved. I do realize the tune was 90% of the improvement, but never need to replace the filter and the car breathes better. Sounds like a win on the cheap.

I do agree above its not really a "mod" but its an improvement in airflow with a penalty in filtering.

09-16-2016, 11:30 AM	#32
NITRA10 Drives: 16 Camaro SS Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: 818 Posts: 413	I received my filter ordered from PHASTEK Install time took 10 min, and after driving it around for a while to let the ecu relearn the airflow I definitely like it. Worth the $70. I wholeheartedly understand all gains will be negligible when the car has 400HP to the wheels, but acceleration is better and I love the WOOSH sound on downshifts with the A8 Good stuff!

09-16-2016, 01:56 PM	#36
Slem Drives: 2016 Summit White 2SS (Auto) Loaded Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Ontario Posts: 487 View My Garage	I installed mine a day ago and was not looking for much at all, I will say this. It's seems to be better then the paper filter. The car seems to definitely respond better to my foot.

10-09-2016, 01:23 AM	#39
DisturbedSS Drives: 16 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: AZ Posts: 224	The gains really come from tuning to take full advantage of the less restrictive flow. Ive done similar tune comparisons with both drop ins and a full CAI swap and never really felt a difference. There may be additional HP on the dyno for those into numbers, but Im more into driving feel. If the stock airbox with a drop-in is sufficient for a magnuson S/C install, it cant be a huge restriction to the overall setup.

10-09-2016, 04:26 AM	#42
DisturbedSS Drives: 16 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: AZ Posts: 224	Hang on a sec...theres a fly juuust above my head.......<SWAT> there we go... I typically bought CAIs and tuned them on past cars, but am seeing minimal gains now on the newer generation cars. The last 2 Corvettes, just did the drop-ins with a tune and the drive was much improved. I do realize the tune was 90% of the improvement, but never need to replace the filter and the car breathes better. Sounds like a win on the cheap. I do agree above its not really a "mod" but its an improvement in airflow with a penalty in filtering.

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