[Calubi]

After researching the pros and cons of moving to a 4pt rollbar with race seats and 6pt harness, my understanding is this is a bad idea for a car that sees street use due to the risk of contacting the roll bar behind the seat if an accident occurs. So for those of you that have such setups, how do you "test" the car between track events?

I'm thinking of things like brake bedding and making sure the last round of repairs are good. Or even trying to diagnose a new noise. Basic car maintenance. Do you remove the rollbar? Just accept the risk? I'm genuinely curious. The articles and threads I've read talk about daily driving (and why not to do it), not the feasibility of taking the occasional drive to verify the car runs fine.

[That1guy_tim]

Originally Posted by Calubi

After researching the pros and cons of moving to a 4pt rollbar with race seats and 6pt harness, my understanding is this is a bad idea for a car that sees street use due to the risk of contacting the roll bar behind the seat if an accident occurs. So for those of you that have such setups, how do you "test" the car between track events?

I'm thinking of things like brake bedding and making sure the last round of repairs are good. Or even trying to diagnose a new noise. Basic car maintenance. Do you remove the rollbar? Just accept the risk? I'm genuinely curious. The articles and threads I've read talk about daily driving (and why not to do it), not the feasibility of taking the occasional drive to verify the car runs fine.

I drive my car all over the place with my roll bar In the car in the summer. I live 30min from my local track and drive car to and from events. Just watch out for other drivers that's all.

It's all a personal preference if you want to risk getting into a bad enough car accident where you will get tossed around the car to actually hit your head on the bar behind you.

[Choda]

You hit a point a lot of people dont even think about.

I had a 10 point in my last car because it needed it at track. Driving around in the summer traffic with a dozen steel tubes is not the greatest idea. Esp when I know I never really synched in my harness like I did while racing. These new car can go pretty fast with out having a cage. I know for sure, I'll never add another cage to a street car. Even with swing outs and a custom cage. Also keep in mind these newer cars have multiple air bags. Bars might get in the way of them working properly.

[h018871]

I had a 4-point in my 5th gen, it was my daily. To make myself feel better, I padded the bars near me and prayed that I wouldn't need them.
Keep in mind that race harnesses are not DOT legal for the street and you should always wear neck protection with harnesses. I used the OEM 3-point when on the street and relied on the airbags and padding. Fortunately, I was not in any incident.

[seanblurr]

With a full bucket race seat and harness, I don't actually know how much of a risk there really is... There would have to be alot of flex in the seat during impact. I'm far from an expert though.

Mine occasionally sees street miles.

[Blast2hell]

I know where mine is relative to me, I'd have to depart my front seat and be sent to my rear seat to hit my 4pt. Is that possible to happen? Sure anything is possible. Statistically improbable I would lean toward assuming you are still wearing your standard seatbelt and aren't driving insane. Still, the impact required to move me around like that may argue you are better off having the 4 point to give yourself a better chance.

[kropscamaro16]

yea im still trying to figure out if i want oem zl1 seats or a full cage and seats and harness setup

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Blast2hell

I know where mine is relative to me, I'd have to depart my front seat and be sent to my rear seat to hit my 4pt. Is that possible to happen? Sure anything is possible. Statistically improbable I would lean toward assuming you are still wearing your standard seatbelt and aren't driving insane. Still, the impact required to move me around like that may argue you are better off having the 4 point to give yourself a better chance.

I happened to survive an accident, in which my car was rear ended at hiway speed (while being stopped due to an accident in front of me). I was thrown back with incredible force then forward when my car collided with a wreck in front. Trust me, if i had a single steel tube anywhere in the car my brain would be sprayed all over. And dont think for a moment that some padding will make steel "soft" at high impact.
Accidents are called accidents because nobody can predict them. They happen in a split of a second. If we could somehow "see them coming" there would be no accidents.

To me this subject is binary:
1) full on race car: zero street
2) dual purpose car: full oem safety (which is damn excellent these days).

[That1guy_tim]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

I happened to survive an accident, in which my car was rear ended at hiway speed (while being stopped due to an accident in front of me). I was thrown back with incredible force then forward when my car collided with a wreck in front. Trust me, if i had a single steel tube anywhere in the car my brain would be sprayed all over. And dont think for a moment that some padding will make steel "soft" at high impact.
Accidents are called accidents because nobody can predict them. They happen in a split of a second. If we could somehow "see them coming" there would be no accidents.

To me this subject is binary:
1) full on race car: zero street
2) dual purpose car: full oem safety (which is damn excellent these days).

maybe if you had a half cage in your car the rear end wouldn't have pushed so far forward?? ........ (just playing devils advocate here for conversation)

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by That1guy_tim

maybe if you had a half cage in your car the rear end wouldn't have pushed so far forward?? ........ (just playing devils advocate here for conversation)

Maybe. Maybe not. Cars are designed to have crumple zones on purpose. Even Nascar Cup cars. To me, aftermarket cages installed on street cars are highly questionable especially given how and where they are connected to the frame (and often not welded). I also think, that too often, folks assume that any aftermarket roll bar/cage is vastly better than specifically designed airbag oem system. Ive seen street cars turned into "race cars" completely pancake upon a roll over because of poor choices of frame connections. Etc.

Another issue is that many folks incorrectly attach harness belts making them effectively useless. Even some shops that attach them have no idea how to do it properly. No matter what track i go to, i always seem to find a car or two with this issue and an owner completely unaware of it. Because they trust their fave shop to to the right thing. And effectively drive a car with ZERO protection. This is not just limited to amateurs btw. Ive seen cars at NASA and SCCA events with this problem.

I guess what i am trying to say is two fold:
1. Dont drive a car with steel tubes anywhere inside the cabin without a helmet. Period. Full stop.
2. Dont assume any aftermarket safety solution is somehow automatically superior to eom solutions (which are designed and tested under strict conditions and then rated by an independent gov body).

Enough said from my armchair Cheers!

[TrackClub]

Here's an example of improperly attached harnesses. Can you spot the difference between driver and passenger sides? Hint: a passenger would exit thru the windshield like a high powered projectile.


Note all the safety inspection stickers

[Vtor_ZL1]

Wear a helmet all the time... risk mitigated.

[That1guy_tim]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Here's an example of improperly attached harnesses. Can you spot the difference between driver and passenger sides? Hint: a passenger would exit thru the windshield like a high powered projectile.


Note all the safety inspection stickers

Yeah that harness is not going to stay tight at all! I will admit I almost left my harness wrapped like that the very first time. Something told me ehhh that doesn't seem right. research lead me how to properly wrap it.

I will also agree it's crazy the things you see pass thru "tech".

I appreciate your responses TrackClub. always highly informed and I usually learn a thing or two reading your posts.

[Vtor_ZL1]

I prefer to see harness around the bar harness installation when possible.


That's too many possible failure points. Welded tabs, the bolt, the bracket w its 2 cent spring latch.