[Whoomba]

I have owned a gen5 Camaro and own a gen6 Camaro. I drove a 2023 Mustang for a week. Doesn’t matter now but with the exception of the way the Mustang stores the top, the Camaro is a better car. The ride, the power, the power delivery, the styling, overall better. And yet they couldn’t get rid of it fast enough.

[ItsChristianInHD]

As someone who has both a s550 and Camaro Six in their garage. I can confirm the Camaro is a better sports car. Mustang is good at everything but a master at none.

My wife is eyeballing a s650 GT down the line. Looking forward to Ford making adjustments to the car after all the launch feedback.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by ItsChristianInHD

As someone who has both a s550 and Camaro Six in their garage. I can confirm the Camaro is a better sports car. Mustang is good at everything but a master at none.

My wife is eyeballing a s650 GT down the line. Looking forward to Ford making adjustments to the car after all the launch feedback.

I don’t think they’ll do very much adjustments since the s650 is already a major adjustment. Going by recent history, Ford updated the original s197 platform (05-09) in 2010 (10-14) giving it a much better suspension. During the 10-14 cycle they didn’t really do anything aside from I believe add a track package in 2013 (could be wrong but I think 11-12 had only the brembo package available and 13-14 had brembo and track packages available). They have no competition or reason to update it with the Camaro and Challenger gone. Even though the Supra and Z are competitors they don’t have to worry much about losing sales to them as they have different buyers and very poor sales compared to Mustang, Challenger and Camaro.

[GreyGhost702]

Coming from a history of Mustangs, the Camaro was pretty much a business failure all its life. As a product, there were only a handful of years where the Camaro was more desirable than the Mustang. Over the last decade alone, the Mustang out-sold Camaro year over year almost 2:1 every year. From the consumer's perspective, I think a lot of it boiled down to years of propaganda and bad history. GM's effort to connect with its enthusiasts when the horsepower war reignited was pathetic, and even aired a sense of elitism. The fact that GM carried the Camaro year after year of getting beat out by Mustang in sales, was really a charity for GM enthusiasts. For many years, the Mustang was always the more affordable and better bang for the buck option. For the Millennials, there wasn't even a Camaro option for us to buy when we started driving and buying our first cars. And by the time there was, it was only known as a "bumble bee car."

Personally, I enjoy having a '19 1SS1LE. For some reason, most GM folk hate (for some reason) that GM put a flow-tie badge on the bumper and gave it a 2-tone scheme. Which they went back to generic in 2020+. Fine by me, it makes 2019 a rare year tyvm. GM does something a little different, and the base loses their minds.

I've rented a few late model Mustang GT's on trips. Not sure if it's because they're rentals, maybe detuned (I hope). I have to agree, they feel shitty compared to my SS. Maybe a track pack would feel better, but even the power felt dull, even with the engine screaming. The SS torque in the lower power band feels similar to the kick from my '03 Cobra (in stock form). It's instant, it puts you back in the seat and you know it's there. S550 got ugly with the 2018 face lift, IMO. The Mach 1 looks a little better than the GT, but the form holds nothing compared to the lines of the 6th Gen Camaro. The 2024 Mustang, when I first saw it, I felt offended. Ford copy and pasted the Camaro body and slapped a horse badge on it. How unoriginal. I do think the late model Mustangs are more comfortable, more relaxed. When I get in the 1LE, there is only 1 sitting position and it feels like a track car all day and a cockpit akin to a fighter jet. Maybe a 2SS has a more relaxed feel. But I enjoy it, that's why I got a 1LE and not a 2SS.

What will be even more infuriating is when they bring the Camaro back as an EV. I might have to trade up for a 'vette, just so as not to be confused with the cable shovers.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by GreyGhost702

Coming from a history of Mustangs, the Camaro was pretty much a business failure all its life. As a product, there were only a handful of years where the Camaro was more desirable than the Mustang. Over the last decade alone, the Mustang out-sold Camaro year over year almost 2:1 every year. From the consumer's perspective, I think a lot of it boiled down to years of propaganda and bad history. GM's effort to connect with its enthusiasts when the horsepower war reignited was pathetic, and even aired a sense of elitism. The fact that GM carried the Camaro year after year of getting beat out by Mustang in sales, was really a charity for GM enthusiasts. For many years, the Mustang was always the more affordable and better bang for the buck option. For the Millennials, there wasn't even a Camaro option for us to buy when we started driving and buying our first cars. And by the time there was, it was only known as a "bumble bee car."

Personally, I enjoy having a '19 1SS1LE. For some reason, most GM folk hate (for some reason) that GM put a flow-tie badge on the bumper and gave it a 2-tone scheme. Which they went back to generic in 2020+. Fine by me, it makes 2019 a rare year tyvm. GM does something a little different, and the base loses their minds.

I've rented a few late model Mustang GT's on trips. Not sure if it's because they're rentals, maybe detuned (I hope). I have to agree, they feel shitty compared to my SS. Maybe a track pack would feel better, but even the power felt dull, even with the engine screaming. The SS torque in the lower power band feels similar to the kick from my '03 Cobra (in stock form). It's instant, it puts you back in the seat and you know it's there. S550 got ugly with the 2018 face lift, IMO. The Mach 1 looks a little better than the GT, but the form holds nothing compared to the lines of the 6th Gen Camaro. The 2024 Mustang, when I first saw it, I felt offended. Ford copy and pasted the Camaro body and slapped a horse badge on it. How unoriginal. I do think the late model Mustangs are more comfortable, more relaxed. When I get in the 1LE, there is only 1 sitting position and it feels like a track car all day and a cockpit akin to a fighter jet. Maybe a 2SS has a more relaxed feel. But I enjoy it, that's why I got a 1LE and not a 2SS.

What will be even more infuriating is when they bring the Camaro back as an EV. I might have to trade up for a 'vette, just so as not to be confused with the cable shovers.

Long time mustang fan. The 5th Gen camaro outsold the mustang most years. It was however the slower heavier car in a straight line. I’m a full believer if it weren’t for the Camaro coming back with a 400+ hp ls3 the coyote wouldn’t be as impressive as it is.

I kind of agree with what you’re saying about the coyote feeling gutless especially down low, however as the speeds climb the gen 3 powered coyote cars eventually pass lt1 powered cars as our cars tend to run out of breath with the stock cam up top. Both engines are very impressive and each one has weaknesses and strengths.

If I get bored with my SS 1le I can see myself in a s650. I consider the coyote a much more mod friendly platform and can extract a bunch of power out of it much easier and cheaper than my SS 1le. Very curious about what I do in 5 years when warranty is up.

[Evergreen6]

Everyone buys their car in part for personal and emotional reasons which need not make sense or logic so long as the buyer is happy with their choice.

The Mustang is a great car. Not unlike past generations, the latest gen is a little more pedestrian, and it seems to appeal to a wider range of buyers than the Camaro for that reason. I prefer the Camaro, myself.

[Curr]

I owned a '12 GT 5.0 M6, '16 C7 2LT M7, and a '17 2SS 50th M6 'vert... and I miss the Camaro most of all, my wife also agrees. I did drive a Scat Pack for a weekend (Buddy and I swapped cars) and it was better than the Mustang / C7 for me, too.

My Gen6 was definitely my (before my current) favorite car, and I do miss it.

[GreyGhost702]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Long time mustang fan. The 5th Gen camaro outsold the mustang most years. It was however the slower heavier car in a straight line. I’m a full believer if it weren’t for the Camaro coming back with a 400+ hp ls3 the coyote wouldn’t be as impressive as it is.

I kind of agree with what you’re saying about the coyote feeling gutless especially down low, however as the speeds climb the gen 3 powered coyote cars eventually pass lt1 powered cars as our cars tend to run out of breath with the stock cam up top. Both engines are very impressive and each one has weaknesses and strengths.

If I get bored with my SS 1le I can see myself in a s650. I consider the coyote a much more mod friendly platform and can extract a bunch of power out of it much easier and cheaper than my SS 1le. Very curious about what I do in 5 years when warranty is up.

When I sold my '08 GT Procharged back in 2013 I always thought I'd get back into another Mustang. By 2018, the 6th Gen Camaro really caught my eye. The first word that came to mind when I see these cars is, evil. They just look super aggressive, mean front facia, the car embodies performance from every angle. Watched a number of YouTube videos pitting the 1LE against the Track Pack GT, and the 1LE was always coming out on top overall in performance, but a touch slower in the 1/4 mile, which can honestly boil down to a drivers race more than a car as how close they are. As sick as the Camaro was, I agreed that the Mustang was the all-around car, and honestly the Coyote sounds better, factory vs factory exhaust. (Hope one day when I can afford an exhaust, the SS will improve in that department...)

When I was finally ready to hop back in the saddle in 2019, it came down to insults and ego. I will name names for this one. I went to Team Ford in Vegas to purchase a Shadow Grey with black accents track pack GT. Mag ride, dual mode exhaust, all the good stuff. There was only 1 in town that had those options and colors, a few were close but I wanted that style wheel and options package. Team would not budge on their price markup. I don't recall what MSRP was at the time, but their final sticker price on it was $54k (at least $10k markup). Mind you, this is a 2019 and I was buying in December of 2019... so they could have/should have worked with me. Anyway, I offered 50% down in cash, even though I had perfect credit and secured my own financing. They didn't care, managers wouldn't budge, sales guy just wanted to move on to the next customer. So I asked to see the manager, 10 minutes later he came and said he was sorry he couldn't budge on specialty vehicles. I shook his hand and told him "There's no such thing as a special GT." Thanked him for making my decision easier. I walked literally next lot down to the Chevy dealer, and right out front is a Dark Shadow Grey 1SS1LE, final sticker price $41,851.00. They even threw in the GM issue Camaro stripe floor mats and trunk mat, lol. I didn't even ask to test drive it, told them to write it up. I was out in an hour, drove it over to Team Ford and waved at my sales guy, and thanked him again.

So, my SS is by unintended happy circumstances. I liked the car, but would have prefered the Mustang. After driving it and owning it, I'm a happy camper. Never had a single issue with mine, but I only have 16k/mi on the clock lol.

[scott_0]

I've been a Mustang guy from early on, then I decided I was no longer brand or model loyal, I bought a 2018 1le in October, I can say the 1le is a better car than my 2016 Mustang GT was.


It's unfortunate that Chevy killed the Camaro yet again, my guess is they bring it back yet again, at least I hope they do...

[AZCamaroFan]

'business failure all it's life" "only a handful of years it was more desireable" 'oustold 2-1 the last decade'

basically everything you wrote is incorrect

[Cardiak]

Originally Posted by scott_0

I've been a Mustang guy from early on, then I decided I was no longer brand or model loyal, I bought a 2018 1le in October, I can say the 1le is a better car than my 2016 Mustang GT was.


It's unfortunate that Chevy killed the Camaro yet again, my guess is they bring it back yet again, at least I hope they do...

I'd rather them not bring it back because it will be a four door EV cross-over SUV thing.

[NovaSS4spdFan]

For me, choosing a Gen 6 vert over a current Mustang vert was a no brainer. The Mustang cowl shake over bumps and road irregularities would drive me nuts. There is no remedy(short of a redesign) for it either. I can live with the smaller trunk and less outward vision.

[GreyGhost702]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

'business failure all it's life" A generalization, if your competition is the Mustang primarily, and your business is selling cars, if your competitor is beating you in sales, your product isn't successful. It doesn't mean GM didn't have a market share, no less than Mopar had a market share or any of the imports.

"only a handful of years it was more desireable" Again, a generalized statement/opinion. If more people buy Mustang than Camaro, I think it's safe to say it's more desirable. I always thought GM should have done a Pepsi challenge campaign. Invite randoms to a GM event and put them in trim = trim Mustang & Camaros, get real opinions and comments that aren't enthusiast based. It might have helped their sales.

'oustold 2-1 the last decade' Based on scrolling over soft data, here are a couple of sources. Perhaps a more accurate average is 1.4:1. Or perhaps rather than making a precise statement, just say with exception of 2014, the Mustang simply out-sold the Camaro for the last decade.
https://www.torquenews.com/106/ford-...times-51-years

https://motrolix.com/automotive-sale...ge-challenger/

basically everything you wrote is incorrect

I'm sorry you feel that way about my opinions and soft data. And I'm sorry if I've offended you, it kind of sounds like it. I'm not bashing the Camaro or putting the Mustang on a pedestal. I really don't have a dog in the fight, I'm not a brand loyalist. I've had Mustangs and now I have a Camaro. I've enjoyed the Camaro in ways I could never appreciate my past Mustangs for. It's just my opinion on why I think the Camaro keeps fizzling out, and Ford keeps cranking out pony badges. Clearly GM knows what they're doing, because they've never discontinued the Corvette. I think it's true today as it has been in the past, that Mustang owners who went modified would always hold the bar up against the Corvette in terms of performance. Were you faster than a 'vette, could you pull more lateral G's than a 'vette, or could you out-roll a 'vette. Nobody ever held their bar up to the Camaro. I think we're all here in agreement, though. The Camaro is factually the better car today, apples to apples. And we're not happy to see the line end, again.

[speedyink1]

To be fair Ford really has the business dialed in. They know what sells, and they know how to market things properly.
The new Dashboard is a great example. They're marketing massive screens that replace the gauges and unreal engine powered graphics. Doesn't mean dick for driving characteristics, but it sure impresses people in the showrooms.

Some of the reasons I appreciated the new Camaros are probably reasons others may have turned it away. Actual gauges for tach/speedo? Yes please. Less electronic systems to go wrong over time? Sign me up. Physical controls for HVAC instead of massive center screen? 100%

We know the mechanical bits are superior, but so many people out there get swayed by the flashy electronics and superior marketing. We are but a small percentage of the buying demographic.

On the plus side, the Mustang does inherently feel less special because of its prevalence. Kind of a "dime a dozen" scenario. I was talking to someone yesterday about cars. He loved my Camaro and said if he were in the market he'd make the same choice, a big reason being "Mustangs are everywhere"