[FenwickHockey65]

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/01...d-in-the-wild/


Corvette E-Ray powertrain mule.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Thanks Martin,

At least to me that's the only logical explanation. The whole segment is shrinking, but Camaro is hit the worst but it offers the best performance in the class, best handling in the class, and the performance to dollar ratio is insane yet its the worst selling vehicle in it's class for the majority of it's life and now has been hit the hardest since the segment is shrinking. The only things the other two do better is they are better at being cars. Even if it's only marginally better that can make a difference. Especially to someone who is making a decision based on a 15-20 minute test drive.

I believe the Camaro is best at the segment's mission as a performance focused vehicle. I think the segment makes a poor daily driver regardless of your choice here. However, the segment does make a sexy one if you're willing to accept the shortcomings. I guess on the Camaro though, the buying public as a whole clearly agrees with you and exactly why i'm saying the autopsy will be important for the EV rebirth. We're going to end up with something completely different if we get a Camaro at all.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by snizzle

I believe the Camaro is best at the segment's mission as a performance focused vehicle. I think the segment makes a poor daily driver regardless of your choice here. However, the segment does make a sexy one if you're willing to accept the shortcomings. I guess on the Camaro though, the buying public as a whole clearly agrees with you and exactly why i'm saying the autopsy will be important for the EV rebirth. We're going to end up with something completely different if we get a Camaro at all.

I don't notice any more weekday driven new Challengers or Mustangs than 6th gens. The previous Mustang, yeah. 5th gen baited the segment to become personal trophies, not sustainable. Ford's just been better at convincing gullible youth the new Mustang is a better performance bang for buck. I had hoped for a ATS coupe sized 6th gen, not necessarily faster, because a better daily is compact, and there's no fun compacts out there, for me.

[FenwickHockey65]

Just to add fuel to this fire...


Corvette outsold Camaro in Q4 2020.

[FenwickHockey65]

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturi...nn-sources-say


Pay walled article, but evidently GM will be building Honda EVs at Ramos Arizpe and Spring Hill Assembly.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by genxer

I don't notice any more weekday driven new Challengers or Mustangs than 6th gens. The previous Mustang, yeah. 5th gen baited the segment to become personal trophies, not sustainable. Ford's just been better at convincing gullible youth the new Mustang is a better performance bang for buck. I had hoped for a ATS coupe sized 6th gen, not necessarily faster, because a better daily is compact, and there's no fun compacts out there, for me.

I pass a Challenger every quarter mile. Wish I was joking. Sometimes I’ll be stopped at a light and there’ll be at least one Challenger in each direction. Maybe one day I’ll pull down some dashcam footage to prove my point. Now, keeping in mind that the car has looked pretty much the same since 2008, all model years are included in this.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturi...nn-sources-say


Pay walled article, but evidently GM will be building Honda EVs at Ramos Arizpe and Spring Hill Assembly.

I can confirm this. We are one of AN’s sources on this. Speaking of AN, read the article on diesel sales and you might see someone you know quoted.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I pass a Challenger every quarter mile. Wish I was joking. Sometimes I’ll be stopped at a light and there’ll be at least one Challenger in each direction. Maybe one day I’ll pull down some dashcam footage to prove my point. Now, keeping in mind that the car has looked pretty much the same since 2008, all model years are included in this.

I wish you were joking too. Past times I've driven into Michigan, it's always been cool basically seeing a parade of domestic makes. Even with the Challenger/post-Chrysler Co. weak credentials there.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by snizzle

I believe the Camaro is best at the segment's mission as a performance focused vehicle. I think the segment makes a poor daily driver regardless of your choice here. However, the segment does make a sexy one if you're willing to accept the shortcomings. I guess on the Camaro though, the buying public as a whole clearly agrees with you and exactly why i'm saying the autopsy will be important for the EV rebirth. We're going to end up with something completely different if we get a Camaro at all.

Definitely. As a performance vehicle its cleary number 1 in the segment and I would have to even say it's a world class performance car in the right trim levels.

The problem is the majority of camaros sold don't fall into those categories so the only other explanation is the other two are better at being cars first. As painful as it is for enthusiasts to admit unless its a halo vehicle(Corvette) you need volume to justify it's existence. And as painful as it is for enthusiasts to admit, sometimes that means catering to the average person more than the enthusiast. I am fully confident GM could have still made the best performing car in the class and a better coupe at the same time.

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Just to add fuel to this fire...


Corvette outsold Camaro in Q4 2020.

ouch, that shouldn't happen

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by shaffe

ouch, that shouldn't happen

Brand new ME Corvette design is the reason. Not unusual for a new Gen Corvette to outpace the Camaro, especially if you select a single Quarter of sales, and especially one of the lowest volume sports car sales quarters (Q4)

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Brand new ME Corvette design is the reason. Not unusual for a new Gen Corvette to outpace the Camaro, especially if you select a single Quarter of sales, and especially one of the lowest volume sports car sales quarters (Q4)

Eh, sort of. Corvette is a low volume model though. It shouldn't outsell camaro in any quarter. Camaro only outsold Corvette by 8k units for the year. the last few years Camaro has outsold corvette for the year by at least 30K units.

Both makes had their best year of the last 10 years in 2014, Camaro outsold corvette by 52K cars.... Corvette should never outsell Camaro

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Eh, sort of. Corvette is a low volume model though. It shouldn't outsell camaro in any quarter. Camaro only outsold Corvette by 8k units for the year. the last few years Camaro has outsold corvette for the year by at least 30K units.

Both makes had their best year of the last 10 years in 2014, Camaro outsold corvette by 52K cars.... Corvette should never outsell Camaro

Disagree - Q4 is a slow sales quarter for sports cars. Add to that, the Camaro has nothing new model wise since 2018, with the only change a questionable face lift 2019-2020 and the addition of the A10 to the ZLE. Nothing new to entice buyers in the dead of winter.

On the other hand, the 2020 ME Corvette demand is through the roof, private resales consistently over MSRP, etc...it's not just a new gen of Corvette, it's an entirely new segment for Corvette/GM and it's proving to be very popular.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Disagree - Q4 is a slow sales quarter for sports cars. Add to that, the Camaro has nothing new model wise since 2018, with the only change a questionable face lift 2019-2020 and the addition of the A10 to the ZLE. Nothing new to entice buyers in the dead of winter.

On the other hand, the 2020 ME Corvette demand is through the roof, private resales consistently over MSRP, etc...it's not just a new gen of Corvette, it's an entirely new segment for Corvette/GM and it's proving to be very popular.

Maybe this is one of those things that will fall a little in column A little in Column B

Yes Q4 is typically bad for sports cars and Camaro is getting long in the tooth and the C8 is all new and a huge success

I'm just kind of glancing at the last 10 years sales but there doesn't seem to be a quarter where Corvette ever outsold Camaro except for maybe 09 when Camaro was just coming back. Camaro has taken a massive slide in sales, it only outsold Corvette by 8K units this year. Last year was over 30K

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by LSxWittles

Is there any speculation as to when Cadillac is going to do the full reveal of the CT4 and CT5 Blackwings? I remember seeing a fall timeline before (or it might have been summer) and was curious if anyone had any info on that. Apologies if this has been discussed earlier in the thread.

February 1st.


https://media.cadillac.com/media/us/...blackwing.html