01-24-2021, 08:44 PM | #1 |
Drives: 2017 ZL1 A10 & 2021 BMW M340i x Dr Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tampa
Posts: 5,110
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Idle Timing Adv question
Does anyone know how much timing adv flux i should expect at idle when Cammed and larger sc. Also have NW103, BG, ARH long system and headers, lower pulley. Been trying to dial in my idle and i see timing adv change by ~15 degrees while idling. I am on the positive side. I am Tuned to run by MAF only.
The TQ tables i have adjusted so far are the 4 Idle Tq tables plus the VT table. I have the car set to run at 825 in PK/Neutral and 800 in gear.
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Sold 2012 2LT RS 12.3@112 old setup
Sold 1967 Camaro Pro Street. Ran 10's mild BB on NOS. 2017 HyperBlue ZL1 A10 ** Born 3/17/17**Delivered 4/08/17 2020 Build: Mag2650, BTR Stage2, NW103, BG, 14% lower, 90mm upper, ARH 2" Long system w/no cats, SW Legend mufflers. **807hp/762tq on 93 gas** and **848hp/792tq on e47** Sold 2018 (Go Mango) Dodge Charger Daytona 392 Daily Driver Daily Driver 2021 BMW M340i Xdrive |
01-24-2021, 08:57 PM | #2 |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Petersham MA
Posts: 4,701
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The car uses timing to trim the idle via virtual torque calcs, and a car tuned “MAF-only” will struggle to idle well with a cam.
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2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS A8 Whipple 3.0, Mast Black Label heads, Fore triple in-tank pumps, 112mm TB, LPE +52% injectors, LPE BB HPFP, 15” conversion 1059 WHP/944 WTQ, 9.48@150
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01-25-2021, 05:18 AM | #3 | |
Drives: 2017 ZL1 A10 & 2021 BMW M340i x Dr Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tampa
Posts: 5,110
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Quote:
I was thinking of using Zone 0-1 only. I only need it for idling. I wonder if the big name shops tune VE in the cars they do.
__________________
Sold 2012 2LT RS 12.3@112 old setup
Sold 1967 Camaro Pro Street. Ran 10's mild BB on NOS. 2017 HyperBlue ZL1 A10 ** Born 3/17/17**Delivered 4/08/17 2020 Build: Mag2650, BTR Stage2, NW103, BG, 14% lower, 90mm upper, ARH 2" Long system w/no cats, SW Legend mufflers. **807hp/762tq on 93 gas** and **848hp/792tq on e47** Sold 2018 (Go Mango) Dodge Charger Daytona 392 Daily Driver Daily Driver 2021 BMW M340i Xdrive |
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01-25-2021, 06:06 AM | #4 | |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Petersham MA
Posts: 4,701
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Quote:
If you go on the HP Tuners forum, you’ll find most of the decent tuners are always tuning VVE too. If you’ve watched Greg Banish’s videos, he explains why it’s important. The Tuning School says you don’t need to, and they’re wrong IMO.
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2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS A8 Whipple 3.0, Mast Black Label heads, Fore triple in-tank pumps, 112mm TB, LPE +52% injectors, LPE BB HPFP, 15” conversion 1059 WHP/944 WTQ, 9.48@150
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01-25-2021, 07:46 AM | #5 |
Drives: 2017 ZL1 A10 & 2021 BMW M340i x Dr Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tampa
Posts: 5,110
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I agree that many tuners don't want to touch it. I am thinking if I only do zone 1 it might not be too bad.
__________________
Sold 2012 2LT RS 12.3@112 old setup
Sold 1967 Camaro Pro Street. Ran 10's mild BB on NOS. 2017 HyperBlue ZL1 A10 ** Born 3/17/17**Delivered 4/08/17 2020 Build: Mag2650, BTR Stage2, NW103, BG, 14% lower, 90mm upper, ARH 2" Long system w/no cats, SW Legend mufflers. **807hp/762tq on 93 gas** and **848hp/792tq on e47** Sold 2018 (Go Mango) Dodge Charger Daytona 392 Daily Driver Daily Driver 2021 BMW M340i Xdrive |
01-26-2021, 09:51 PM | #6 | |
Drives: 17 2SS, 8L90, Cam, Heads, E85 Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: US
Posts: 1,196
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Quote:
Use the bluecat VVE coefficients generator, the HP Tuners built in one just isn't that great and the solver in it will get really unstable between boundaries and screw up your smoothness of your table and change parts of the table you don't mean to change. I agree 100% you have to tune VVE and get it right if you want a good idle. I also had to adjust the virtual torque table by about -20% or so in the idle regions and only on the negative and low timing tables. Before I did this it would idle at really low timing values and made the exhaust louder. |
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01-31-2021, 12:55 PM | #7 |
Drives: 2017 ZL1 A10 & 2021 BMW M340i x Dr Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tampa
Posts: 5,110
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Looked at my VVe today but I set it only to run up to 1400rpm. It was appx 43% rich.
__________________
Sold 2012 2LT RS 12.3@112 old setup
Sold 1967 Camaro Pro Street. Ran 10's mild BB on NOS. 2017 HyperBlue ZL1 A10 ** Born 3/17/17**Delivered 4/08/17 2020 Build: Mag2650, BTR Stage2, NW103, BG, 14% lower, 90mm upper, ARH 2" Long system w/no cats, SW Legend mufflers. **807hp/762tq on 93 gas** and **848hp/792tq on e47** Sold 2018 (Go Mango) Dodge Charger Daytona 392 Daily Driver Daily Driver 2021 BMW M340i Xdrive |
01-31-2021, 01:10 PM | #8 |
Drives: 17 2SS, 8L90, Cam, Heads, E85 Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: US
Posts: 1,196
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01-31-2021, 06:23 PM | #9 |
Drives: 2017 ZL1 A10 & 2021 BMW M340i x Dr Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tampa
Posts: 5,110
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Stock VVe numbers. I only did 600rpm to 1400 rpm and I had to reduce the vve table numbers 42% to get them within 3 %. Guess it's understandable with all my mods.
__________________
Sold 2012 2LT RS 12.3@112 old setup
Sold 1967 Camaro Pro Street. Ran 10's mild BB on NOS. 2017 HyperBlue ZL1 A10 ** Born 3/17/17**Delivered 4/08/17 2020 Build: Mag2650, BTR Stage2, NW103, BG, 14% lower, 90mm upper, ARH 2" Long system w/no cats, SW Legend mufflers. **807hp/762tq on 93 gas** and **848hp/792tq on e47** Sold 2018 (Go Mango) Dodge Charger Daytona 392 Daily Driver Daily Driver 2021 BMW M340i Xdrive |
02-05-2021, 10:01 AM | #10 |
Drives: 17 2SS, 8L90, Cam, Heads, E85 Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: US
Posts: 1,196
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I don't think we can trust wideband or any O2 feedback with a cam with overlap at idle, I think fuel trims still may look stable and relatively low as well as O2 oscillation, but can we really trust what O2's are saying when the car is misfiring and combustion is not even occurring properly because the cam is so big?
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02-05-2021, 03:40 PM | #11 | |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Petersham MA
Posts: 4,701
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Quote:
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2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS A8 Whipple 3.0, Mast Black Label heads, Fore triple in-tank pumps, 112mm TB, LPE +52% injectors, LPE BB HPFP, 15” conversion 1059 WHP/944 WTQ, 9.48@150
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02-05-2021, 08:28 PM | #12 |
Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 46804
Posts: 6,764
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^Facts
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2016 NFG 1SS A8
Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA |
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