[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by pauly1119

And you know because thats what you are told, what where the core earth temps 100 years ago when we had nearly zero emissions? How accurate do you think those are when we had to dig a hole in a outhouse for plumbing? Facts are sea level has changed by hundreds of feet long before we had cars which would mean the temperature on earth cycle. We know this because there is proof, you can dive down over hundreds of feet and view the cities. Sorry your liberal agenda won't work on me, you can see it with your eyes. LOL just be quite and do what your told, thats your answer? No sorry thats not going to happen Let me guess your for the green new deal? Good luck, I hope California succeeds from the Union and becomes their own county. Then you guys can do what ever you want.

Exactly, you have no idea what you are talking about. The cycles and their rate of change are significantly different than that which has been recorded and researched in modern times. Yes, these are known things. Its. Not. The. Same. Thing. It's not a "liberal agenda". It's science. You are just recycling the old "it's gotten hotter and colder before". That's not what this is about, on the most basic level. It's about the rate of change and time.

[cellsafemode]

like many decisions, a large number of people aren't going to be alive by the time their actions' results come to fruition. So they dont really care.

Steal from the next generation, let them figure out what to do. That's how this country works.

[ZED SLED]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

I think there’s some pretty good history to be learned from following Germany’s lead.

shhh! Millennials don't want to hear that.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by ZED SLED

shhh! Millennials don't want to hear that.

I saw a report just a few weeks ago that stated a very low percentage of millenials don't even know what went on in Germany from 1934-45. I hope that report is incorrect because it's actually a bit frightening.

[cellsafemode]

that means a lot do know. Which of the negatives in the above comment is out of place? or is knowing frightening?

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

That's an interesting hill to die on. I guess you assume perfect health and cognitive ability until you die? The only thing I could drive for a while back was an automatic, having had ankle surgery. I'll probably need surgery on the other one at some time in the future and then even further in the future, I can see a day when I just can't drive a manual. Not today, but I'd rather still be driving than dying on that hill about the manual and petrol. The idea that I may be able to still get around by myself when I'm much older is pretty nice...

Electric cars were science fiction when I was growing up. The fact that they are reality now is amazing. Not for everyone, but to the point where they are practical for a large part of the population. It will only improve.

If something happens I guess I just deal with whatever comes. I really don't look that far into my future. Live for today, who knows what will happen tomorrow and none of us have control of it.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

like many decisions, a large number of people aren't going to be alive by the time their actions' results come to fruition. So they dont really care.

Steal from the next generation, let them figure out what to do. That's how this country works.

Hey, it's America baby.

For all the complaining people do about our country I still don't see them moving to other parts of the world, where it has to be a billion times better. I mean, you'd think there'd be a mass exodus to Canada with all the whining about our country and the way we do things lol

[cellsafemode]

Regardless of whether or not cars go electric...

the idea that car enthusiasts will have a better situation in this hobby with ICE in 10-20 years from now is laughably optimistic.

ICE cars are being locked down now both at the drivetrain electronics level to the entertaintment. They're being equipped with tracking hardware that is tied increasingly to other systems so it can't be removed and these tracking devices phone home. Additionally driving is being attacked at the law enforcement level increasingly - via more traffic cops and noise ordinances and other regulations. Cost of insurance and parking, purchase and other related costs of cars keeps going up while income remains stagnant. Soon we'll be given a choice to protect ourselves and save money by removing cops from traffic stops and replace them with turning all of our cars into tattle tales and we'll vote to do it because who suffers? criminals that speed and what not.

The idea that we're not boned as hobby in the near future no matter what is powering the car is just wishful thinking. So who cares if electric is mandated or not. The hobby dies either way.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Hey, it's America baby.

For all the complaining people do about our country I still don't see them moving to other parts of the world, where it has to be a billion times better. I mean, you'd think there'd be a mass exodus to Canada with all the whining about our country and the way we do things lol

Luckily, screwing the next generation is a fairly common thing every country does. So not usually helpful to move for.

It's a big country, there's always going to be a lot to complain about. You should be very worried if there isn't since most things dont have a right or wrong but a "different" and because not a lot of good usually comes from mob mentality.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by pauly1119

LOL climate change. How much emissions where being produced thousands of years ago to explain why so many settlements are located hundreds of feet under the ocean. Earth cycles and sea levels change. I can't believe they get people to believe this crap. I do agree car manufacturers will steer towards electrics just because its so efficient in its ability.

The LOL is on those who do not understand that yes, the earth has completly thawed out the ice caps several times, especially when an asteroid more than a mile across hits the earth every 65 million years or so.

The problem is here we are the asteroid hitting the earth warming the globe not some interplanetary event. Ans we can stop it. I think we should.

It is not your fault. some scientists are hired to spread the big oil gospel. And they are very good at it.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

The LOL is on those who do not understand that yes, the earth has completly thawed out the ice caps several times, especially when an asteroid more than a mile across hits the earth every 65 million years or so.

The problem is here we are the asteroid hitting the earth warming the globe not some interplanetary event. Ans we can stop it. I think we should.

It is not your fault. some scientists are hired to spread the big oil gospel. And they are very good at it.

LOL

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Ahh yes, the typical "the scientists are living in McMansions, driving around Ferrari's, living off of that sweet income from doing science..." Yes, the same people who brought you The Microwave and Computer Chips...but now it's all a conspiracy and 97% of them are in on the chemtrails.

Actually, if scientists can make enough money on their own to drive Ferrari, they may get more credit for what they say. Two major reasons for this:

1. Scientists don't make money. This means other organizations/individuals fund them. Usually those people have their own agendas. You get where this is going. See the old "doctors say that tobaccos are good for you" ads for examples.

2. I will start this point with a joke:

A scientist and an engineer are roommates. One night, a fire broke out. The engineer woke up, grabbed the fire extinguisher, put out the fire, then went back to bed.

Another night, another fire broke out. This time, the scientist woke up. He proceeded to grab the fire extinguisher... then went straight back to bed, satisfied knowing that a solution is present.

The idea is that scientists are typically very narrow-minded in the sense that they only care about scientific concerns. Political and economical concerns don't exist according to them. Their job is to just tell you something is possible according to the laws of physics and such, not necessarily practical. Those other issues are just as real, though, and you have to address these other concerns in real life.

Engineers make microwaves and computer chips, thank you very much. Scientists just discover the idea behind them, engineers make them practical.

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

I always find it entertaining when people without a degree in the field suddenly think they know what they are talking about. I do have some formal (university and work) training in meteorology, but more than that, I've traveled with many of the scientists to their work locations in the Arctic.

And nowhere in my argument did I say I know for sure what's the truth. My point is literally that because we don't have the expertise, we don't know for sure. Especially when issues like these get politicized, it gets very difficult to know the truth. When it comes to issue like this that's on such a massive scale, what you believe mostly boils down to your belief system and your experience. I just take everything on this issue with a grain of salt because it's very complex.

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

I always find it entertaining when people deflect and try to bring up strawman arguments.

Too bad this is not a univeristy course on how to debate. Sorry, no credits.

It doesn't really matter. The fact is, you drive a Camaro SS. You can present the most logical arguments without logical fallacies, but I will always see this as hypocrisy unless you sell it and buy a more environmentally responsible vehicle. If you believe the idea, don't talk to me about it, do something to prove it.

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

And being serious for a second...I have no idea what you mean by "process the waste". That's exactly what emissions have been improving on for years, now getting to where we need to change those emissions or eliminate them. It's far more efficient (yes, the calculations have been done on this) to generate power at the power-plant, whether it be nuclear, fission, fusion, wind, natural gas, hydroelectric, etc..., and transport it to your electric car. Emissions are still often involved here, but in terms of total impact, in both emissions and energy used, it's a better way. There is already at least partial infrastructure for it and as more of a shift is made, infrastructure is improved. Shirley you aren't advocating for a giant plastic bag on your exhaust and then sending it somewhere to use a lot more energy to scrub the carbon out of it?

And at the very least, you should be super hyped that this leaves far more oil and fuel available for military maneuvers, practice and reserves.

I get the idea behind it, centralized waste processing is more efficient. No arguments against that.

What I mean by processing the waste is that we should somehow process the carbon dioxide and break it down to oxygen and carbon. I can't think of much other than the old "planting more trees" without violating some laws of thermodynamics. Emissions are still there, and telling people to change their ways of life(reduce consumption, their carbon footprint, etc.) at a quick pace won't work as well as having more things built in the backstage.

Also, just as a footnote, adding the word "science" to your arguments don't make it more or less valid, seeing how that term is used nowadays.

Originally Posted by Fraxum

The LOL is on those who do not understand that yes, the earth has completly thawed out the ice caps several times, especially when an asteroid more than a mile across hits the earth every 65 million years or so.

The problem is here we are the asteroid hitting the earth warming the globe not some interplanetary event. And we can stop it. I think we should.

It is not your fault. some scientists are hired to spread the big oil gospel. And they are very good at it.

Good! Start by not buying a V8 pony car!

(pls dont banhammer/flame/etc.)

[triggerjerk]

It's not about global warming. I mean climate change. I mean man made climate change.

EVs with their suite of electronic controls (ie autonomous support) offer unprecedented govt tracking and control.

Also, why do you think Barra and Reuss ran to the Whitehouse after Trump won and begged for an EV mandate? You think they care about the environment? Or do they see a profit or competitive advantage if EVs are mandated by the govt?

ps this is all a simulation. we all died in 2012 like science said we would.

[LT4Greg]

I guess if a giant asteroid hits the earth again we won’t have anything to be concerned about anymore. We will most likely all be killed!