[s346k]

Originally Posted by L78toLT1

After doing a little research, I'm convinced this would be a drivers race. Car and Driver ran 11.4 / 132. I trapped basically the same in what had to be worse conditions. My only 1/4 mile passes in this car were at Camarofest X in what felt like 100 degree heat. If I start at 60 - 70 in 3rd gear, I will probably hook. No lift shift to 4th and I'm thinking I may pull him a bit until the top of 4th. With the big jump from 4th to 5th in the SS m6, if we don't run out of road, he may catch me. Either way, it should be close

i can see the camaro being slow off the hit and never being able to recover. you have to consider the gt500 achieved those trap speeds in basically the same manner - not being able to put the power down. m6 cars are still hard to beat from a roll if you can drive. that doesn't simply mean just a no-lift shift, it means a fast and clean shift. i've seen a lot of very slow no lift shifts.

[L78toLT1]

Originally Posted by s346k

i can see the camaro being slow off the hit and never being able to recover. you have to consider the gt500 achieved those trap speeds in basically the same manner - not being able to put the power down. m6 cars are still hard to beat from a roll if you can drive. that doesn't simply mean just a no-lift shift, it means a fast and clean shift. i've seen a lot of very slow no lift shifts.

I’m 61 years old and have been driving and drag racing manual trans cars for decades. My reflexes are still holding up farily well, and I’m well versed in no lift shifting. I don’t think driver skill will be a significant impediment, especially in a roll race. Given that I bested C&D’s GT500 trap speed by 1 mph on a stifling hot day, I think I have a slight power edge. I remain optimistic that I could hold off a GT500 on a roll, at least until I fall into the huge hole between 4th and 5th gear.
I love my manual but must admit that the performance toll it extracts vs. a modern automatic is occasionally a bit of a downer. When I came along, manuals were faster than autos across the board. Things have certainly changed in that regard.
One thing I can say with absolute certainty: If I ever do run across a GT500 on an open highway, I hope that he’s bone stock!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by L78toLT1

I’m 61 years old and have been driving and drag racing manual trans cars for decades. My reflexes are still holding up farily well, and I’m well versed in no lift shifting. I don’t think driver skill will be a significant impediment, especially in a roll race. Given that I bested C&D’s GT500 trap speed by 1 mph on a stifling hot day, I think I have a slight power edge. I remain optimistic that I could hold off a GT500 on a roll, at least until I fall into the huge hole between 4th and 5th gear.
I love my manual but must admit that the performance toll it extracts vs. a modern automatic is occasionally a bit of a downer. When I came along, manuals were faster than autos across the board. Things have certainly changed in that regard.
One thing I can say with absolute certainty: If I ever do run across a GT500 on an open highway, I hope that he’s bone stock!

Any loss you take will purely be due to the trans and doesn't reflect on you. It's just that you have a particular disadvantage that will be significant. And yea you're gonna have to beat him before switching to 5th because that is where he might overtake you. Or if you have a decent lead then you might be able to keep the lead somewhat.

If I may ask, what mods do you have that put you at 730 RWHP? Is there room for more if you want to turn it up? I mean, if you're on the stock blower then you might be tapped out. But if you have a blower and cam swap then maybe dial it up a bit. I say that because I pretty much think that any 500 you come across will most likely be pulley/tune/LTs and in the 800+ range. Plus I think the days where 600 and 700 RWHP cars are just not gonna cut it anymore against the big dogs.

[L78toLT1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Any loss you take will purely be due to the trans and doesn't reflect on you. It's just that you have a particular disadvantage that will be significant. And yea you're gonna have to beat him before switching to 5th because that is where he might overtake you. Or if you have a decent lead then you might be able to keep the lead somewhat.

If I may ask, what mods do you have that put you at 730 RWHP? Is there room for more if you want to turn it up? I mean, if you're on the stock blower then you might be tapped out. But if you have a blower and cam swap then maybe dial it up a bit. I say that because I pretty much think that any 500 you come across will most likely be pulley/tune/LTs and in the 800+ range. Plus I think the days where 600 and 700 RWHP cars are just not gonna cut it anymore against the big dogs.

I’m not really worried about whether I could outrun a GT500. Truth to tell, I’ll probably never have the chance to find out. Even if I do, it wouldn’t hurt my feelings if I lost; there’s always someone faster. It’s just that my wife’s innocent query regarding our chances vs. a GT500 was an interesting match up to ponder. Usually I can give a definitive answer to questions of this nature: Yes, honey, we can probably take that Corvette, GT350, Hellcat, ect. (assuming they’re stock). No, we probably can’t take that modded GTR, 720S, 911 turbo, etc.
Blaq, it’s f#@ing unreal that 600 – 700 whp doesn’t cut it anymore, isn’t it? I’m running a 2300 Maggie at around 10psi on a forged, cammed LT1 with LT4 fueling. My lowside (ZL1 pump with JMS voltage booster) is pretty much maxed out on e60. If I wanted to, I’m sure I could address the low side and possibly pulley my way into the low 800’s before running out of high side or injector. I’m okay with my current power level, the car is dead nuts reliable, and is a real beast on a road course. I’ve done numerous track days without breaking anything. I’m sure this would not be the case on the drag strip; even with my relatively modest power, if I hook, something is going to break before too long.

[NW-99SS]

With your experience, and no errors in shifting, you will take the GT500 on a roll.

The biggest thing you can do is put a better tire on that car. At least an R888 or a DR so you won't blow the tires off.

A set of rears with a dedicated strip tire like an ET Street R will also cut around 0.5-0.7 off that 60' as well.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by L78toLT1

I’m not really worried about whether I could outrun a GT500. Truth to tell, I’ll probably never have the chance to find out. Even if I do, it wouldn’t hurt my feelings if I lost; there’s always someone faster. It’s just that my wife’s innocent query regarding our chances vs. a GT500 was an interesting match up to ponder. Usually I can give a definitive answer to questions of this nature: Yes, honey, we can probably take that Corvette, GT350, Hellcat, ect. (assuming they’re stock). No, we probably can’t take that modded GTR, 720S, 911 turbo, etc.
Blaq, it’s f#@ing unreal that 600 – 700 whp doesn’t cut it anymore, isn’t it? I’m running a 2300 Maggie at around 10psi on a forged, cammed LT1 with LT4 fueling. My lowside (ZL1 pump with JMS voltage booster) is pretty much maxed out on e60. If I wanted to, I’m sure I could address the low side and possibly pulley my way into the low 800’s before running out of high side or injector. I’m okay with my current power level, the car is dead nuts reliable, and is a real beast on a road course. I’ve done numerous track days without breaking anything. I’m sure this would not be the case on the drag strip; even with my relatively modest power, if I hook, something is going to break before too long.

I don't know why I asked what your mods are instead of just checking your sig. All this time I thought you were in a ZL1. It would be a good race for sure.

[BlaqWhole]

Off topic. I just want to let you guys know, I might be doing another assignment to help out some of the struggling hospitals again. Except this time it might be out of the Tri-State area. I might be heading to North Dakota to help them. Some of these states are having a bad time with worker shortages right now. And I am currently discussing options with my agency and other agencies. So if you do not hear from me for a while then that is why. Most likely it'll be 13 week contracts if they do not get extended. So we'll see. Just so you guys don't all freak out and be all worried sick and miss me like crazy.

[shaffe]

If you do take the assignment take care of yourself!

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by L78toLT1

After doing a little research, I'm convinced this would be a drivers race. Car and Driver ran 11.4 / 132. I trapped basically the same in what had to be worse conditions. My only 1/4 mile passes in this car were at Camarofest X in what felt like 100 degree heat. If I start at 60 - 70 in 3rd gear, I will probably hook. No lift shift to 4th and I'm thinking I may pull him a bit until the top of 4th. With the big jump from 4th to 5th in the SS m6, if we don't run out of road, he may catch me. Either way, it should be close

I think it would be a very close race against a stock GT500 - and likely the winner will be:

1) Whoever gets the initial hit (since it's difficult to start at the same time in a roll race) if both start at optimum speed and have traction, or
2) Depends on optimization of starting speed relative to gear selection:

Regarding #2 above, my car (light bolt on 2018 A10 GT PP1 with some weight reduction) has optimal rolling start ranges. 35-40 mph is great for 2nd gear (assuming warm tires), and 50-55 mph is great for 3rd. However, 45 mph might be a bit too fast for 2nd (2nd to 3rd happens at ~55 mph), and a tad too slow for 3rd gear to get the most optimal hit.

The C&D 132 mph trap speed is an average of two different runs in the opposite direction (so one direction may have been 133 mph with the other 131 mph, depending on wind), and corrected to standard conditions, per C&D:
"All of our straight-line acceleration results are the average of the best run in opposite directions, to account for wind. Ambient weather conditions—we record absolute barometric pressure and wet- and dry-bulb temperatures trackside—determine how much power an engine makes. Because of that, we also correct acceleration results to 60 degrees Fahrenheit at sea level. Cooler air is denser and contains more oxygen, allowing the engine to burn more fuel and make more power. Similarly, high barometric pressure produces more power than low pressure, and dry air has more oxygen than moist air."

They do the two-way average and standard conditions correction to allow for a bit more apples to apples comparisons between cars tested in different conditions.

That said - your 133 mph trap speed would be higher at standard conditions if it was hot out and above sea level when you ran. But if that run was with the wind that could offset some of the improvement seen by the standard corrections. Good trap speed, none-the-less!

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The C&D 132 mph trap speed is an average of two different runs in the opposite direction (so one direction may have been 133 mph with the other 131 mph, depending on wind), and corrected to standard conditions, per C&D:
"All of our straight-line acceleration results are the average of the best run in opposite directions, to account for wind. Ambient weather conditions—we record absolute barometric pressure and wet- and dry-bulb temperatures trackside—determine how much power an engine makes. Because of that, we also correct acceleration results to 60 degrees Fahrenheit at sea level. Cooler air is denser and contains more oxygen, allowing the engine to burn more fuel and make more power. Similarly, high barometric pressure produces more power than low pressure, and dry air has more oxygen than moist air."

They do the two-way average and standard conditions correction to allow for a bit more apples to apples comparisons between cars tested in different conditions.

That said - your 133 mph trap speed would be higher at standard conditions if it was hot out and above sea level when you ran. But if that run was with the wind that could offset some of the improvement seen by the standard corrections. Good trap speed, none-the-less!

The difference in heat does mean that the 'corrected' mph for the GT500 and the actual measured mph for L78toLT1's car are not directly comparable. Supercharged cars really do not like heat. I had one myself and have observed others as well. Example, talked to a guy with a modded Hellcat (800 wheel he said) at the dragstrip on a day where my car display said 91, and he told me that he was down 8mph because of the weather. Same thing would apply to the GT500, if 132mph is the result of correcting to 60 degrees, then you would not get that speed at ~90 degrees.

[Evansa22]

I'm convinced you will take it regardless. From a dig you'll have to have a good launch vs the dct, but roll or get your feet and your gonna eat em up. Remember it weighs 4225 regardless of trans, you're at maybe 3700lbs with the ss? Traction will be more of an issue but your less weight with more power. Seems to me as long as you can keep traction you'll take em. They also probably paid at least 110-115k for the gt500. Would put a bigger smile on my face knowing that as I pulled away. Most likely they paid over 100k for the car, dropping another 10k or so on mods should be expected.
Good luck!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Evansa22

I'm convinced you will take it regardless. From a dig you'll have to have a good launch vs the dct, but roll or get your feet and your gonna eat em up. Remember it weighs 4225 regardless of trans, you're at maybe 3700lbs with the ss? Traction will be more of an issue but your less weight with more power. Seems to me as long as you can keep traction you'll take em. They also probably paid at least 110-115k for the gt500. Would put a bigger smile on my face knowing that as I pulled away. Most likely they paid over 100k for the car, dropping another 10k or so on mods should be expected.
Good luck!

I think the Ford guys painted themselves into a corner with the GT500 and it's ridiculous pricing. And that is compared to the other cars in it's league. There is a GT500 near me listed at $115K. Oddly enough, you can't view the sticker on it. And it isn't the track edition or whatever. Nor does it have the stripes which only a severe idiot would pay for anyway. A friend of mine bought a GT at this particular dealership and he said the actual MSRP from the factory was $85K. Meanwhile Dodge still has their sale going on which means you can get a fully loaded Redeye for like $75K. Makes no sense. But the GT500 sells and these guys line up to buy it. And now they say things like "oh well the markup isn't bad compared to other markups"...I honestly do not get it. Looking at these Redeye WB prices, if I wasn't this far into my HC I would have jumped on one already. But anyway, my point is that for what you'll pay for a ZL1 or HC and then throw heavy mods at it you will still be way off the price of what these guys are paying for a GT500.

[BlaqWhole]

Actually, scratch that...I just looked a bit more and it does seem like these dealerships are advertising them (GT500s) at MSRP. Now maybe they are doing some trickery like just not advertising the markups or maybe it is totally legit. I don't know. But perhaps now with this Pandemic and most people not trying to buy super expensive cars and much less cars with huge markups attached...and with the competition offering huge discounts like I already mentioned, maybe these dealerships have no choice but to sell them at MSRP. Otherwise the car sits on the lot and they're losing money every day it stays there. In any case, it might be worthwhile to go take a look and see exactly how much I can get one OTD for. LOL!!

[NW-99SS]

I think GM may have realized the upper limit of Pony car sales with the 5th gen Z/28 and the 6th ZLE.

I know of a few GT500s that are sitting on dealer lots with regular calls going out to potential buyers in hopes of moving them...but they sat all summer and fall due to dealer ADMs, and even when dropped to MSRP now, still sitting.