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Old 01-25-2021, 12:14 AM   #1
Kevin01Z28
 
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A8 converter unlocks while cruising

Hello everyone. I recently sold my H/C/I 2001 Z28 w/TH400 😐

I bought a 2018 Camaro SS A8 with 18,000 miles. I absolutely love the car. One of the first things I’m doing is deleting the AFM, cause I can’t stand it. I removed the F51 fuse, just to hear the exhaust tone a little better at lower rpm’s, and noticed that during cruising speeds (before the ECM activates V4 mode) the converter will unlock/lock every 8 to 10 seconds. As far as I can tell when in eco or V4 mode the converter remains locked. Swapped to over to manual mode while cruising in 8th, still does it.

Also when dropping 4 cylinders, particularly at lower engine speeds in 8th there’s a pretty noticeable vibration. If I give it just enough gas to disable AFM (not enough to unlock the TC) it immediately smooths out. So long story short I want the AFM disabled, but don’t want my TC unlocking constantly.

Other than take it to a dealer to have the trans fluid flushed and replaced with the newer fluid that apparently can fix this issue sometimes, are there any other options? Possibly something in the tune that can be tweaked so the converter stays locked longer? Only tuning I’ve done was on LS1’s for bolt one’s, larger stalls, idle/part throttle tuning for mild cams. I’m no expert, so I’ll leave it those who are. I believe I got 9 months left on my 3 year 36,000 mile warranty. So I guess if the dealer is my only option, then I’ll try it out.
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Old 01-25-2021, 12:19 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin01Z28 View Post
Hello everyone. I recently sold my H/C/I 2001 Z28 w/TH400 😐

I bought a 2018 Camaro SS A8 with 18,000 miles. I absolutely love the car. One of the first things I’m doing is deleting the AFM, cause I can’t stand it. I removed the F51 fuse, just to hear the exhaust tone a little better at lower rpm’s, and noticed that during cruising speeds (before the ECM activates V4 mode) the converter will unlock/lock every 8 to 10 seconds. As far as I can tell when in eco or V4 mode the converter remains locked. Swapped to over to manual mode while cruising in 8th, still does it.

Also when dropping 4 cylinders, particularly at lower engine speeds in 8th there’s a pretty noticeable vibration. If I give it just enough gas to disable AFM (not enough to unlock the TC) it immediately smooths out. So long story short I want the AFM disabled, but don’t want my TC unlocking constantly.

Other than take it to a dealer to have the trans fluid flushed and replaced with the newer fluid that apparently can fix this issue sometimes, are there any other options? Possibly something in the tune that can be tweaked so the converter stays locked longer? Only tuning I’ve done was on LS1’s for bolt one’s, larger stalls, idle/part throttle tuning for mild cams. I’m no expert, so I’ll leave it those who are. I believe I got 9 months left on my 3 year 36,000 mile warranty. So I guess if the dealer is my only option, then I’ll try it out.
you can get a Range AFM Disable module which will disable your AFM... I wouldn't do any tuning until your warranty is up (unless you don't care about our warranty)...

Also, make sure your car has the TSB for the A8 Shudder and that everything is up to date...
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Old 01-25-2021, 12:27 AM   #3
Kevin01Z28
 
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I ordered a Range AFM disabler the same evening I bought the car, for that very reason. Since this is obviously a frequent problem I hope I’ve caught it before any unnecessary damage is done to the TC clutch or trans. But who knows
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Old 01-25-2021, 04:48 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin01Z28 View Post
I believe I got 9 months left on my 3 year 36,000 mile warranty. So I guess if the dealer is my only option, then I’ll try it out.
Bumper-to-bumper is 3 yr/36,000 mi. Powertrain is 5 yr/60,000 mi.
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Old 01-25-2021, 08:47 AM   #5
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I'd say go and get the flush ASAP as a first step.

Successful A8 trans tunes zero out or reduce the slip tables and adjust TCC lockup settings, not sure if that would help in your case, but definitely worth a try, see some details here: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=561352
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Old 01-25-2021, 10:47 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arpad_m View Post
I'd say go and get the flush ASAP as a first step.

Successful A8 trans tunes zero out or reduce the slip tables and adjust TCC lockup settings, not sure if that would help in your case, but definitely worth a try, see some details here: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=561352
I’m working on getting an appt at the dealer. I’m going to send my old hptuners MPVI device for an upgrade...it’s so old it won’t support even the gen 5 OS. I’m guessing the TC duty cycle could be increased, and apply/release tables as well to remedy this if the flush doesn’t fix it.
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2001 Z28 Full bolt on’s, ported 243’s, small cam, FMVB TH400 w/3,800 hard hit stall, 3.42’s. *sold* 😔
2018 SS Camaro A8 1LE replica wheels, bone stock otherwise
2008 F150 Daily driver
2002 Heritage Softail Classic 1.5 inch lower progressive rear springs/monotube fronts, 13" apes, 21" front mammoth spoked wheel, SE 10.5 cr heads, SE 264 cams, Mikuni HSR 42 flatslide carb, V&H pipes
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Old 01-25-2021, 04:23 PM   #7
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Got an appointment at 830 Wednesday morning at the Chevy dealer. The woman I spoke to new exactly what I was talking about, as she claimed they had a corvette with the same issues in there now. Said it will take 1/2 a day, maybe more since they flush/replace the fluid a total of 3 times with the newer spec'd fluid. She said they have about a 86 to 93 percent success rate doing the fluid flush and filter change.

I know that if I alter the tune in any way it will void what's left of my warranty, which I don't want to do. If I use the Range AFM disabler will it leave some type of "foot print" behind where a technician can detect?
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2001 Z28 Full bolt on’s, ported 243’s, small cam, FMVB TH400 w/3,800 hard hit stall, 3.42’s. *sold* 😔
2018 SS Camaro A8 1LE replica wheels, bone stock otherwise
2008 F150 Daily driver
2002 Heritage Softail Classic 1.5 inch lower progressive rear springs/monotube fronts, 13" apes, 21" front mammoth spoked wheel, SE 10.5 cr heads, SE 264 cams, Mikuni HSR 42 flatslide carb, V&H pipes
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Old 01-25-2021, 06:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin01Z28 View Post
Got an appointment at 830 Wednesday morning at the Chevy dealer. The woman I spoke to new exactly what I was talking about, as she claimed they had a corvette with the same issues in there now. Said it will take 1/2 a day, maybe more since they flush/replace the fluid a total of 3 times with the newer spec'd fluid. She said they have about a 86 to 93 percent success rate doing the fluid flush and filter change.

I know that if I alter the tune in any way it will void what's left of my warranty, which I don't want to do. If I use the Range AFM disabler will it leave some type of "foot print" behind where a technician can detect?
Just for peace of mind I'd double-check they use the correct fluid by part number (19417577). Only saying this because there had been an earlier service procedure that required a triple flush, and that did not correct the shudder. The new (Jan 2019) TSB I linked calls for a flush machine that will suck out everything, and I don't see why they would flush 3x with this fairly expensive fluid when they have a vacuum machine. The procedure itself seems to have some overprovisioning built in already. Then again, I'm just an amateur, it's always best to ask and confirm with the pros.

The Range disabler will leave no trace behind. If I understand correctly how it works, it supplies false signals via the OBD-II port that cease as soon as you unplug it.

(Now, theoretically speaking, there could be some internal log capturing in the ECM that might indicate the previous presence of an OBD-II device. However, even then that log will not be infinite first of all, just drive the car for a while after unplugging the Range, plus searching for that specifically would take an extra hardcore tech or service manager, which is unlikely.)
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2018 Camaro 2SS — G7E MX0 NPP F55 IO6
735 rwhp | 665 rwtq

Magnuson TVS 2300 80mm pulley | Kooks 1 7/8" LT headers | JRE smooth idle terminator cam | LT4 FS & injectors | TSP forged pistons & rods
JMS PowerMAX | DSX flex fuel kit | Roto-Fab CAI | Soler 95mm LT5 TB | 1LE wheels | 1LE brakes | BMR rear cradle lockout | JRE custom tune

1100 - 1/30/18 | 2000 - 1/31/18
3000 - 2/06/18 TPW 2/26/18
3400 - 2/19/18 | 3800 - 2/26/18
4300 - 2/27/18 | 4B00 - 3/01/18
4200 - 3/05/18 | 4800 - 3/14/18
5000 - 3/16/18 | 6000 - 3/19/18
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Old 01-25-2021, 10:00 PM   #9
Kevin01Z28
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arpad_m View Post
Just for peace of mind I'd double-check they use the correct fluid by part number (19417577). Only saying this because there had been an earlier service procedure that required a triple flush, and that did not correct the shudder. The new (Jan 2019) TSB I linked calls for a flush machine that will suck out everything, and I don't see why they would flush 3x with this fairly expensive fluid when they have a vacuum machine. The procedure itself seems to have some overprovisioning built in already. Then again, I'm just an amateur, it's always best to ask and confirm with the pros.

The Range disabler will leave no trace behind. If I understand correctly how it works, it supplies false signals via the OBD-II port that cease as soon as you unplug it.

(Now, theoretically speaking, there could be some internal log capturing in the ECM that might indicate the previous presence of an OBD-II device. However, even then that log will not be infinite first of all, just drive the car for a while after unplugging the Range, plus searching for that specifically would take an extra hardcore tech or service manager, which is unlikely.)
I've printed out all 17 pages for the TSB 18-NA-355. I see the part number on page 17 you referenced for the fluid that is supposed to correct the issue. Going to bring it with me, highlight the fluid number so there won't be any confusion I hope.

I really need to stop reading online about it, I see a lot of customers that say the problem comes back after 1,000 or more miles and GM does nothing to actually remedy it. By that time I'm sure the TC clutches are glazed or there is significant wear to the TC solenoid and/or other valve body components, idk.

But I do really appreciate the info..!!!
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2001 Z28 Full bolt on’s, ported 243’s, small cam, FMVB TH400 w/3,800 hard hit stall, 3.42’s. *sold* 😔
2018 SS Camaro A8 1LE replica wheels, bone stock otherwise
2008 F150 Daily driver
2002 Heritage Softail Classic 1.5 inch lower progressive rear springs/monotube fronts, 13" apes, 21" front mammoth spoked wheel, SE 10.5 cr heads, SE 264 cams, Mikuni HSR 42 flatslide carb, V&H pipes
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Old 01-25-2021, 11:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin01Z28 View Post
I've printed out all 17 pages for the TSB 18-NA-355. I see the part number on page 17 you referenced for the fluid that is supposed to correct the issue. Going to bring it with me, highlight the fluid number so there won't be any confusion I hope.

I really need to stop reading online about it, I see a lot of customers that say the problem comes back after 1,000 or more miles and GM does nothing to actually remedy it. By that time I'm sure the TC clutches are glazed or there is significant wear to the TC solenoid and/or other valve body components, idk.

But I do really appreciate the info..!!!
No worries. Your conclusion seems to be sound, of those cars that saw the shudder return, typically after a long time the owners had put up with the shudder initially, a new torque converter fixed it permanently for every single one whose owner cared to post here. Getting the transmission tuned by a pro also helps, it has a lot of potential left on the table.

My A8 is obviously just one data point, but I got it flushed preemptively, then took the car to Jannetty for a little upgrade that included a trans tune, and it's absolutely flawless, zero problems, works the way it should for everyone off the showroom floor.

It obviously sucks that we have to deal with this BS, but I like to look ahead and go with the solution. Trading for a 2020 or 2021 would not be an option for me anyway, first of all I love this car, and second, I am simply unable to accept the Accord-Charger love child 2019+ front and the swimming goggles rear end (but let's not discuss that, it's been beaten to death ).
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2018 Camaro 2SS — G7E MX0 NPP F55 IO6
735 rwhp | 665 rwtq

Magnuson TVS 2300 80mm pulley | Kooks 1 7/8" LT headers | JRE smooth idle terminator cam | LT4 FS & injectors | TSP forged pistons & rods
JMS PowerMAX | DSX flex fuel kit | Roto-Fab CAI | Soler 95mm LT5 TB | 1LE wheels | 1LE brakes | BMR rear cradle lockout | JRE custom tune

1100 - 1/30/18 | 2000 - 1/31/18
3000 - 2/06/18 TPW 2/26/18
3400 - 2/19/18 | 3800 - 2/26/18
4300 - 2/27/18 | 4B00 - 3/01/18
4200 - 3/05/18 | 4800 - 3/14/18
5000 - 3/16/18 | 6000 - 3/19/18
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Old 01-26-2021, 12:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arpad_m View Post
No worries. Your conclusion seems to be sound, of those cars that saw the shudder return, typically after a long time the owners had put up with the shudder initially, a new torque converter fixed it permanently for every single one whose owner cared to post here. Getting the transmission tuned by a pro also helps, it has a lot of potential left on the table.

My A8 is obviously just one data point, but I got it flushed preemptively, then took the car to Jannetty for a little upgrade that included a trans tune, and it's absolutely flawless, zero problems, works the way it should for everyone off the showroom floor.

It obviously sucks that we have to deal with this BS, but I like to look ahead and go with the solution. Trading for a 2020 or 2021 would not be an option for me anyway, first of all I love this car, and second, I am simply unable to accept the Accord-Charger love child 2019+ front and the swimming goggles rear end (but let's not discuss that, it's been beaten to death ).
Guess I will know more tomorrow after this is all done. My future mod list included a Circle D converter, but I planned on waiting until the warranty has expired. As far as tuning goes I feel like with some research on the forums I should be able to make improvements to the trans tune on my own (considering my car is stock). I'm assuming things like line pressure and torque management aren't altered with stock or near stock vehicles.

I see that tuning the TCM requires an unlock service. Can the TCM/ECM both be read/re-flashed through the OBD port at the same time? Or are they separate files saved in hptuners? I realize I'm off the original topic, but I'm trying to clear some things up.

And to add to all this, ECM = 4 credits, TCM = 4 credits, unlock service = $200.00 (think I have 2 credits left maybe).
I'm starting to miss my LS1 now lol
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2001 Z28 Full bolt on’s, ported 243’s, small cam, FMVB TH400 w/3,800 hard hit stall, 3.42’s. *sold* 😔
2018 SS Camaro A8 1LE replica wheels, bone stock otherwise
2008 F150 Daily driver
2002 Heritage Softail Classic 1.5 inch lower progressive rear springs/monotube fronts, 13" apes, 21" front mammoth spoked wheel, SE 10.5 cr heads, SE 264 cams, Mikuni HSR 42 flatslide carb, V&H pipes
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Old 01-26-2021, 07:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin01Z28 View Post
Guess I will know more tomorrow after this is all done. My future mod list included a Circle D converter, but I planned on waiting until the warranty has expired. As far as tuning goes I feel like with some research on the forums I should be able to make improvements to the trans tune on my own (considering my car is stock). I'm assuming things like line pressure and torque management aren't altered with stock or near stock vehicles.

I see that tuning the TCM requires an unlock service. Can the TCM/ECM both be read/re-flashed through the OBD port at the same time? Or are they separate files saved in hptuners? I realize I'm off the original topic, but I'm trying to clear some things up.

And to add to all this, ECM = 4 credits, TCM = 4 credits, unlock service = $200.00 (think I have 2 credits left maybe).
I'm starting to miss my LS1 now lol
Hope they'll come through for you

Indeed, unlocking is required for the 2017+ TCM (T87A). Still much better than the uncrackable T93 in the 2020+, heh.

ECM/TCM tunes can be saved separately or as a single all-inclusive file, same applies to flashing. Yes, you need 4+4 credits, plus another 1 if you also want to tune the FSCM, say, to adjust desired fuel pump pressures. Not cheap.
__________________
2018 Camaro 2SS — G7E MX0 NPP F55 IO6
735 rwhp | 665 rwtq

Magnuson TVS 2300 80mm pulley | Kooks 1 7/8" LT headers | JRE smooth idle terminator cam | LT4 FS & injectors | TSP forged pistons & rods
JMS PowerMAX | DSX flex fuel kit | Roto-Fab CAI | Soler 95mm LT5 TB | 1LE wheels | 1LE brakes | BMR rear cradle lockout | JRE custom tune

1100 - 1/30/18 | 2000 - 1/31/18
3000 - 2/06/18 TPW 2/26/18
3400 - 2/19/18 | 3800 - 2/26/18
4300 - 2/27/18 | 4B00 - 3/01/18
4200 - 3/05/18 | 4800 - 3/14/18
5000 - 3/16/18 | 6000 - 3/19/18
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Old 01-28-2021, 09:38 AM   #13
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Man I love my 2016. No need to send anything out for unlocking. Only required 3 credits to license all 3 controllers.
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Old 01-28-2021, 09:44 AM   #14
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Well so far, after about 120 miles of driving there is almost zero shuddering...and the TC stays locked while in V8

The dealer was awesome, offered to have a tech ride with me once it was done. I also verified the part number of the fluid, they did use the 19417577 fluid. So for now I'm happy, and am looking forward to enjoying my car. The lady, who was extremely nice and very helpful assured me that no damage has been done and it will be fine.

I however, am more than skeptical of this since there is no way that after 18,000 miles of driving with a shudder and lock/unlock of the TC clutches that there is not accelerated wear.

I asked if they have an updated TCM calibration for these cars, but didn't get anywhere with that. When/if it happens in the future, I will push hard for that and/or a new TC. I feel the true fix for this is a proper TCM calibration, and good quality aftermarket TC....which is crap and I place all blame on GM, not the dealers.
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2001 Z28 Full bolt on’s, ported 243’s, small cam, FMVB TH400 w/3,800 hard hit stall, 3.42’s. *sold* 😔
2018 SS Camaro A8 1LE replica wheels, bone stock otherwise
2008 F150 Daily driver
2002 Heritage Softail Classic 1.5 inch lower progressive rear springs/monotube fronts, 13" apes, 21" front mammoth spoked wheel, SE 10.5 cr heads, SE 264 cams, Mikuni HSR 42 flatslide carb, V&H pipes
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